Mobius 1.20 Firmware Discussion Thread

[niko]

Holy smokes!! Good going, puts my two to shame....

My advice: stay with your two ( maybe 1-2 more ), but no more !
I have a "Dashcam disease" and need to be treated, but there are no doctors out there yet to treat this

 

[Hilts]

My advice: stay with your two ( maybe 1-2 more ), but no more !
I have a "Dashcam disease" and need to be treated, but there are no doctors out there yet to treat this

I'm being to suspect you have trouble with your WEEE!

 

[niko]

I'm being to suspect you have trouble with your WEEE!

Kinda yes.
Hehh, what can I say in my "defence" ?
- some people waste tons of money buying every month 2-3 new games ( each cost 50-60 euro ) for Playstation / X-Box, also wasting 100-s hours on playing them, - I don't do this, never had PS or Xbox.
So, my "waste of time and money" goes into electronics / gadgets / especially dashcams lately. It's actually fun and educational.

 

[horaceCJ]

The flickering problem was reported on RC forum by @dirkzelf and he got this answer:

Until you can compare videos from two cameras mounted side-by-side, and shooting the same scene with the exact same lighting, it's not possible to give a definitive conclusion as to which has the least amount of grain in low light. I've tested all the FW before being released, and some that didn't make the grade to be released, and I can say in my short beta tests that released FW was either equal to or slightly better than prior FW versions.

The occasional "flashing" of the exposure, though, has been very elusive, and hard to duplicate from one test to the next in my tests. I see it in your sample, though. So, it doesn't appear that the root cause has been suppressed fully yet. There's been a lot of time spent trying to get better low light performance from the CMOS imager in the Mobius, and my personal view is were butting heads with the limitation of the hardware. I'm not sure what the developer might do about this.

I posted also some history to prove that the developer can do something about it:

Maybe I can bring some "light" on th "flashing"/"flickering" problems with a bit of history:
- FW v0.47: no issues
- FW v0.53: didn't tried it
- FW v0.57: lowlight flickering no mather the WDR setting, reported here
- FW v0.59: flickering fixed
- FW v1.17: lowlight flickering with WDR set to "Low Light". No problems when WDR is set to "On" (I am currently using this FW).
- FW v1.20: lowlight flickering with WDR set to "On" or "Low Light". Didn't try with "Off"

I hope this will help the developer isolate the problem. Here's a dashcam video where you can see the problem is not occasional, if needed I can upload the original file.

I didn't get any answer, bu hopefully, the problem was reported to the developer also.

 

[BobDiaz]

I pulled the card and checked out the latest videos from V1.20 software. Overall, I like the results. Driving into the sun is never easy, but the results were better than what I expected. Night shots are OK for me and day footage is good too. I'm not seeing any real problems here. Keep in mind that I'm not filming Gone With The Wind here, so if the image shows what happens, I'm happy. I still have problems reading plates at night, but I feel this is a limit of the hardware, not the software.

 

[Alan Collinge]

B-lens.

I don't even remember, hard to say ... maybe around 25-30 pcs different dashcams models I have in hand ( I keep best ones ) and another 50-60 different models I sold from the past I was testing them.
So, for sure I have them more than I have socks in my drawer ... I mean CLEAN socks, not the ones which are waiting for laundrette-time, LOL

Hey Niko, if you've got a broken F70 in your sock drawer can I point you to this thread: http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lens-module-faulty-dashcam.4836/

 

[niko]

Hey Niko, if you've got a broken F70 in your sock drawer can I point you to this thread: http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lens-module-faulty-dashcam.4836/

Thanks. I red it, but dont have it any more unfort.

 

[Alan Collinge]

O.K. Niko, thanks anyway.

 

[FlyingPanMan]

Okay, a strange but possibly useful clue here? I'm running v1.20 FW on my dashcam Mobius and the results were fine both day and night - rock steady exposures with no "flashing". WDR set to "On", not "low-light".

Due to a bit more streetlight reflection from the dashboard than I would like, I moved the camera closer to the windscreen with a very slightly less nose-down attitude. In daylight I got a bit more sky but the dashboard was hardly there and results were good. BUT... at night, the thing was flashing all over the place. On the move, it was at a rough frequency of every alternate streetlight. I noticed it did it at exactly the same street corner on two video clips with no other vehicles around. I'm not sure yet but I think it will even do it with no movement in the frame.

However, my theory is that by removing the reflection of streetlights from the dashboard top, there is generally less light in the frame. The overall picture has less light in it and the software struggles to get the right exposure.

Also, and I really don't know if there's any possibility of this - my camera is mounted upside down (alloy heat-sinks to the bottom) and I wondered if there's any way the light sampling in the frame is taken from the lower half and inverting it upsets that? What I mean is, the road is normally dark and the sky is bright. To see the dark bits, the road (lower part of frame) needs to be sampled and exposure set to favour that area. I know areas of a frame can be sampled (in dslr cameras?). Of course, if that is the case, using the 180 degrees setting should correct it?

Anyway, I'll do some more testing tomorrow and put the camera back where it was to see if it reverts to its former stability.

 

[Hilts]

Objectively, I want to see video that's been shot simultaneously by 2 Mobius cams, one with v1.13 & the other with v1.20.

Subjectively, I think that v1.20 delivers improved video clarity at night (Low Light setting enabled), relative to previous firmware releases. At least with Mobius B. Mobius A may perform differently? I think that v1.20 provides clearer evidence in the event of an accident at night.

If the price is a little flickering, I'm willing to pay it, though I haven't personally experienced it as yet.

I have also a flickering,

Mobius B-lens FW v1.20,
AWB
1080p-W,
WDR ON,
15Mbps bit-rate

I will test soon 18Mbps + Low Light, - maybe this will help ?

The flickering problem was reported on RC forum by @dirkzelf and he got this answer:


I posted also some history to prove that the developer can do something about it:

I didn't get any answer, bu hopefully, the problem was reported to the developer also.

Okay, a strange but possibly useful clue here? I'm running v1.20 FW on my dashcam Mobius and the results were fine both day and night - rock steady exposures with no "flashing". WDR set to "On", not "low-light".

Due to a bit more streetlight reflection from the dashboard than I would like, I moved the camera closer to the windscreen with a very slightly less nose-down attitude. In daylight I got a bit more sky but the dashboard was hardly there and results were good. BUT... at night, the thing was flashing all over the place. On the move, it was at a rough frequency of every alternate streetlight. I noticed it did it at exactly the same street corner on two video clips with no other vehicles around. I'm not sure yet but I think it will even do it with no movement in the frame.

However, my theory is that by removing the reflection of streetlights from the dashboard top, there is generally less light in the frame. The overall picture has less light in it and the software struggles to get the right exposure.

Also, and I really don't know if there's any possibility of this - my camera is mounted upside down (alloy heat-sinks to the bottom) and I wondered if there's any way the light sampling in the frame is taken from the lower half and inverting it upsets that? What I mean is, the road is normally dark and the sky is bright. To see the dark bits, the road (lower part of frame) needs to be sampled and exposure set to favour that area. I know areas of a frame can be sampled (in dslr cameras?). Of course, if that is the case, using the 180 degrees setting should correct it?

Anyway, I'll do some more testing tomorrow and put the camera back where it was to see if it reverts to its former stability.

Bizzarely enough I was about to post something similar. The positioning and angle of Mobius mounting with FW 1.20 does seem important in relation to the night-time flickering being reported.
After going back to FW 1.13 for a while I thought I'd give FW 1.20 another go, but this time with mine angled downwards slightly more and I've found exactly the same result as you FlyingPanMan. I've been running it this way for over a week like this now, with very much less of the flickering than I'd had previously at night-time. This is with Lens B using 1080P with Narrow FOV setting.
I am using the 'Low Light' or 'Enhanced Brightness' setting (depending on whether you're using GUI or SYSCFG.TXT to change the settings). The daylight footage I have with it in this setting is good too.
I want to experiment with a Polarised Lens to see if this improves things further. Currently awaiting arrival of some lens caps to see I can fit a simple Polarised Filter without obstructing the edges of the lens.

 

[FlyingPanMan]

I wasn't able to test the camera in the same mount/car combination today... used my other car but I did use the same Mobius in it.

I started off with the camera pointing quite high and as I drove, lowered it in stages until the bonnet of the car was half way up the frame. I've just been reviewing the footage, and it was flashing about all over the place and pointing up or down made no difference.

Of course, the best test would be when I put it back in the same car and mount and move it up and down as I drive. However, the way in which the camera suddenly started doing all this makes me wonder if it's a component quality issue? Maybe mine just worked for a while then gave up - coincidentally, just after I moved it? Anyway, I'll test it in the original car tomorrow.

Oh, I forgot to mention I'm using the A type lens. I tried a home-made polarising filter but it reduced the amount of light entering by too much so gave up on it. I suppose the exposure could be increased to compensate, but other tests come first.

 

[FlyingPanMan]

Hiyall, I've just been out testing in the original car and mount. Out of curiosity, I tried it with WDR OFF and it didn't make any difference - still "flashing" as I drive along... I think the appropriate term is "hunting" for the correct exposure level.

What I did find was that it was worst when the camera was roughly level... with the horizon just above half the frame height.

In daylight, I normally have the camera so the horizon is no more than one third down the frame, but even this caused a lot of "hunting" at night. Pointing the camera even further down toward the dashboard cured it but then the road only was visible in the top half of the frame!

My next test is to try a small "peak" over the lens... it seems to me that streetlights may be causing the problem when directly overhead. Maybe a lens edge refraction issue? Cars headlights coming towards me don't seem to be causing it.

Will follow up when I can.

 

[horaceCJ]

it seems to me that streetlights may be causing the problem when directly overhead.

I had problems outside the city when the truck in front of me turned on the left signal (see my video here). How would you mount the camera to avoid that?
It's definetly a FW problem and, as usual (hopefully), it will be fixed. Until then, downgrade and relax...

 

[FlyingPanMan]

horaceCJ, Yes, yours is definitely responding to oncoming headlights... not sure what FW version you're on and what lens, video settings, etc., is being used but mine's not quite the same.

I'm not 100% sure it's a firmware fault either, but most likely is. For example, if you use the firmware to overclock a computer, the hardware can be permanently damaged (overheating). If the developers have been too adventurous, any weak components in the Mobius could be affected?

Anyway, I'll keep testing and hopefully be able to eliminate some of the possible causes.

 

[horaceCJ]

That video was on 1.20 (subject of the topic), lens A, standard video rate, 1080 flipped image, some minor saturation and exposure settings; went back to 1.17 with absolutely the same settings and the problems disappeared. Like I said earlier on this page, it happend before in a previous FW. I'm just saying you're wasting your time with testing this specific problem, but in the end it's your time...

 

[FlyingPanMan]

Here is a video of my problem, and yes I know my screen is streaky, but that's not the cause. Notice it happens while stationary, so it's not the camera responding to oncoming headlights or passing streetlights.

 

[Hilts]

Hiyall, I've just been out testing in the original car and mount. Out of curiosity, I tried it with WDR OFF and it didn't make any difference - still "flashing" as I drive along... I think the appropriate term is "hunting" for the correct exposure level.

What I did find was that it was worst when the camera was roughly level... with the horizon just above half the frame height.

In daylight, I normally have the camera so the horizon is no more than one third down the frame, but even this caused a lot of "hunting" at night. Pointing the camera even further down toward the dashboard cured it but then the road only was visible in the top half of the frame!

My next test is to try a small "peak" over the lens... it seems to me that streetlights may be causing the problem when directly overhead. Maybe a lens edge refraction issue? Cars headlights coming towards me don't seem to be causing it.

Will follow up when I can.

I had problems outside the city when the truck in front of me turned on the left signal (see my video here). How would you mount the camera to avoid that?
It's definetly a FW problem and, as usual (hopefully), it will be fixed. Until then, downgrade and relax...

horaceCJ, Yes, yours is definitely responding to oncoming headlights... not sure what FW version you're on and what lens, video settings, etc., is being used but mine's not quite the same.

I'm not 100% sure it's a firmware fault either, but most likely is. For example, if you use the firmware to overclock a computer, the hardware can be permanently damaged (overheating). If the developers have been too adventurous, any weak components in the Mobius could be affected?

Anyway, I'll keep testing and hopefully be able to eliminate some of the possible causes.

That video was on 1.20 (subject of the topic), lens A, standard video rate, 1080 flipped image, some minor saturation and exposure settings; went back to 1.17 with absolutely the same settings and the problems disappeared. Like I said earlier on this page, it happend before in a previous FW. I'm just saying you're wasting your time with testing this specific problem, but in the end it's your time...

I thought I'd fixed the flickering issue when using FW 1.20 earlier, but having re-positioned my Mobius slightly (gone from using suction mount to adhesive mount) the flickering has returned with a vengance, no matter the angle used. Dropped back to FW 1.13 until the next FW update is released....

 

[FlyingPanMan]

Hiya All,
Hilts, I've gone back to FW 1.13 also! Seems HoraceCJ is right and it is a FW fault. I tried it tonight and no flickering at all. The scene is a little darker, but not quite as grainy as FW1.20... a good software package can enhance it quite a bit if need be, IMHO. I might try FW 1.17 again tomorrow. I didn't have any problems with that except the camera was too low at the time.

 

[FlyingPanMan]

Oooer, I think I've messed up. Can anyone view the YouTube video in my last post? I registered it for "Private" viewing but thought it would be open to users of this forum but it seems like nobody's been viewing it? Or is it that boring no-one wants to know

BTW, I've gone back to FW 1.17 with the camera pointing down quite a bit. Testing it last night showed it to be quite stable.

 

[Hilts]

Oooer, I think I've messed up. Can anyone view the YouTube video in my last post? I registered it for "Private" viewing but thought it would be open to users of this forum but it seems like nobody's been viewing it? Or is it that boring no-one wants to know

Nope, can't view as it says 'This Video is Private'....