Mobius Grainy at Night?

Isoprop said:
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As russ331 has pointed out, only a direct comparison using two cameras to simultaneously record the same video scene under varying low-light conditions will show how each FW version performs.
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Firmware versions 0.59, 1.13, 1.20 and 1.21 2.10 graininess/noise are likely caused by the " automatic gain control" function. With firmwares 0.47 and 0.53, the gains are less (therefore, less noise/graininess).


"v.034"...

Published on Dec 13, 2013
 
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The above video comparison is certainly a much better example but the FOV in each frame appears to be different with one being a bit wider than the other. Are the firmware FOV settings different? It is a little hard to tell, maybe the apparent wider FOV is simply the two slightly different camera positions. In the first scene in the video with the car at night, the car on the right appears to be farther away.
 
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russ331 said:
Isoprop clearly meant a Mobius vs Mobius firmware comparison, not a Mobius vs GoPro camera comparison ... though it's nice to see Mobius outperforming the overpriced GoPro.
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And I clearly wrote that the "automatic gain control"(AGC) function might be the culprit ( over boosted). And to be more specific/clearer, that's Mobius "v.034" vs GoPro White.
 
Dashmellow said:
The above video comparison is certainly a much better example but the FOV in each frame appears to be different with one being a bit wider than the other. Are the firmware FOV settings different? It is a little hard to tell, maybe the apparent wider FOV is simply the two slightly different camera positions. In the first scene in the video with the car at night, the car on the right appears to be farther away.
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0.59 is outperforming 1.13 in low light conditions, it just is. We can try thousands "is it...", "it seems like...", "maybe...", etc, but that will not change this "fact". I have to stick with 1.13 though, because I need MD more than 10% better low light performance.
 
The FOV settings in the Mobius determine whether all or just a portion of the sensor will be used in capturing video and this will effect the exposure in regard to how much light the sensor can capture and how much apparent grain is seen. This was basically the point of my post. In order to have a true understanding of what we are seeing requires an apples to apples comparison.
 
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Full screen play friendly ( unlike the driving videos above except for the "0.034" of course )...

 
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Wow! Amazed by the non-graininess (is that a word?) of it? I might try 0.53 just for the heck of it... How dark the skies were compared to what you can see in the video?
 
Was the wide b lens available with that version of the firmware? Might have to try that to see how it compares :)
 
daki_bmw said:
Wow! Amazed by the non-graininess (is that a word?) of it? I might try 0.53 just for the heck of it... How dark the skies were compared to what you can see in the video?
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It was around 15 minutes after "sunset". The clouds were of the darkest types. The car was heading north at the beginning of the video.

The monitor size and settings have a big impact on what one sees. I was surprised by how much more "details" I can see by increasing the brightness setting (video player/monitor) just a touch without distorting the images.


reverend said:
Was the wide b lens available with that version of the firmware? Might have to try that to see how it compares :)
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The switch option, yes.


Note the firmware revision history here ( not an issue for me since I am using the wide mode setting only) ...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...a36b1ddf36e&attachmentid=6978986&d=1406906256
 
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Here's some footage from mine on v2.10 with low light:


You can see what I assume is the AGC kicking in around the 57 second mark.
 
reverend said:
Here's some footage from mine on v2.10 with low light:
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You can see what I assume is the AGC kicking in around the 57 second mark.
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The whole video is over boosted. It might looked ok or even impressive on a 5" screen but I see noise all over the video on my 21" screen.

I think the flickerings are from the poor programming.


Youtube "fill light" brightness at "0" vs "+2" ( using Youtube's editing software):

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This is re-encoded video. The purpose of this video is not to show video quality, or my dirty windshield, or anything other than flickering problem with low light setting in fw 2.10 and, as it can be seen, an effect of "low fps" in moments when video is "brighter" (that is when AGC is higher).

 
reverend said:
Here's some footage from mine on v2.10 with low light:
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Thanks for posting this. Looks good on my 17" screen. Plenty of detail for evidence purposes in an insurance claim or similar, though it may not appeal to those who seem to think they're shooting a road movie.

I'm thinking about upgrading from v1.20 to v2.10, though I'll probably wait for the promised comparison video by @Adi
 
It's really impressive how it pulls that much detail from the image when it ramps that setting up - I need to sit and do some side by sides on my bigger screen later as my laptop is only low res - 720p I think.
 
russ331 said:
Thanks for posting this. Looks good on my 17" screen. Plenty of detail for evidence purposes in an insurance claim or similar, though it may not appeal to those who seem to think they're shooting a road movie.

I'm thinking about upgrading from v1.20 to v2.10, though I'll probably wait for the promised comparison video by @Adi
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I've noticed a certain trend in threads and posts lately regarding such things as dewarping, grain, color balance, extraneous windshield reflections and such, where there seems to be a disconnect between what dash cams are ultimately designed to do and the (understandable) desire for perfection in cinematic quality. At this point in the state of the art we can't have both and a captured license plate with some graininess is preferable to a smoother image where it is unreadable.
 
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Dashmellow said:
I've noticed a certain trend in threads and posts lately regarding such things as dewarping, grain, color balance, extraneous windshield reflections and such, where there seems to be a disconnect between what dash cams are ultimately designed to do and the (understandable) desire for perfection in cinematic quality. At this point in the state of the art we can't have both and a captured license plate with some graininess is preferable to a smoother image where it is unreadable.
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People comparing image quality was like in earlier FW.

So they are not asking the impossible too much to see this in this version.
 
Rickardo said:
People comparing image quality was like in earlier FW.

So they are not asking the impossible too much to see this in this version.
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I think you are missing the point of my post.

There is also the difference between the impossible and the doable. Keep in mind that the ongoing firmware development for the Mobius is unprecedented in any other camera and this new version is part of a long planned next phase. There is no doubt that the developer will continue refining the new firmware and will, as before, continue to address these issues as they arise. If you are looking for instant gratification in an enthusiast camera like the Mobius you will continue to be disappointed and perhaps should look elsewhere. Of course, another option is to go back to an earlier firmware version and patiently wait for one that will meet your expectations.
 
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