Mobius support thread and Tech Guide (post all problems/help requests here) Read posts #1-8 first

Apparently, one of my Mobius cameras becomes frozen in extreme cold weather and won't start recording right away.

For quite some time I have been running a Mobius facing out the rear windshield of my vehicle. (wide lens - FW v.2.25) The camera has a super-capacitor and resides in the vehicle permanently. It has been hands down, the most reliable set-and-forget dash cam I own. Now and again I'll check the footage or reformat the card and no matter what the temperature, summer or winter or how long I neglect the camera, it has always worked perfectly. I've always enjoyed how I can see the rear red camera LED in my rear view mirror and observe the reassuring pulse of the pilot light to know that everything is working as it should.

Where I live in northern New England we have been in the midst of a vicious cold snap. Yesterday, the temperature fell to -12 degrees Fahrenheit (-24.45 Celsius) The day before it wasn't quite so bad with the temps in the single digits. Today is relatively balmy with the temperature up into the teens.

So, for the last few days when I go to start my vehicle the rear LED on the Mobius will flash red three times and then nothing happens.......dead camera. If I wait a few minutes and then unplug the power supply and plug the camera back in, the camera will flash red three times and proceed to function normally. If I bring the camera into my house and let it warm up to room temperature it starts up in the usual fashion, so it seems that when deeply frozen, it needs perhaps two or three minutes of power before it can start to run normally. When the camera is in temperature conditions ranging between the mid twenties and 30's Fahrenheit and even dipping a bit into the teens it seems to function just fine; it is only when the temperature falls dramatically and stays very cold overnight that this seems to occur.

I had wondered along with all this if the super-caps had somehow lost their ability to hold a charge in these conditions but upon checking the footage the proper date and time is on all the clips. There is something else at play here.

Interestingly, when the camera first starts to run in these extreme cold temperatures, the video clips show a serious out-of-focus shift in the footage that slowly begins to return to normal as the camera warms up. Some of the footage seems to have a sort of slightly grainy appearance but I need to explore that further.
 
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I just came back from a drive and after checking the camera it has recorded some video but not nearly all of it. I was wondering if this could be caused by it over heating? Additionally, after letting the car cool down (went for lunch) there is no footage from the drive back home from lunch.
 
I just tested it it does record when hooked up to a permenant power source with out the battery connected. Does this just mean that the battery is dead? and if i order a super cap i should be fine?
 
trilea said:
I just tested it it does record when hooked up to a permenant power source with out the battery connected. Does this just mean that the battery is dead? and if i order a super cap i should be fine?
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did the battery look swollen at all?
 
GJHS said:
Wait, I think this needs further explanation. On its own it seems you're suggesting that the battery in the Mobius only lasts a few weeks
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Sorry fir the misunderstanding, but as jokiin posted I was referring to the worst case scenario, recording 24/7 for over a month. All the same, for professional drivers permanently on the road I wouldn't expect the battery to last more than a few months.
I always try and test for the worst case ;)
 
Isoprop said:
Sorry fir the misunderstanding, but as jokiin posted I was referring to the worst case scenario, recording 24/7 for over a month. All the same, for professional drivers permanently on the road I wouldn't expect the battery to last more than a few months.
I always try and test for the worst case ;)
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Thanks @Isoprop I thought there was more info. Why hasn't the developer made an official capacitor version?
 
Dashmellow said:
Apparently, one of my Mobius cameras becomes frozen in extreme cold weather and won't start recording right away.

For quite some time I have been running a Mobius facing out the rear windshield of my vehicle. (wide lens - FW v.2.25) The camera has a super-capacitor and resides in the vehicle permanently. It has been hands down, the most reliable set-and-forget dash cam I own. Now and again I'll check the footage or reformat the card and no matter what the temperature, summer or winter or how long I neglect the camera, it has always worked perfectly. I've always enjoyed how I can see the rear red camera LED in my rear view mirror and observe the reassuring pulse of the pilot light to know that everything is working as it should.

Where I live in northern New England we have been in the midst of a vicious cold snap. Yesterday, the temperature fell to -12 degrees Fahrenheit (-24.45 Celsius) The day before it wasn't quite so bad with the temps in the single digits. Today is relatively balmy with the temperature up into the teens.

So, for the last few days when I go to start my vehicle the rear LED on the Mobius will flash red three times and then nothing happens.......dead camera. If I wait a few minutes and then unplug the power supply and plug the camera back in, the camera will flash red three times and proceed to function normally. If I bring the camera into my house and let it warm up to room temperature it starts up in the usual fashion, so it seems that when deeply frozen, it needs perhaps two or three minutes of power before it can start to run normally. When the camera is in temperature conditions ranging between the mid twenties and 30's Fahrenheit and even dipping a bit into the teens it seems to function just fine; it is only when the temperature falls dramatically and stays very cold overnight that this seems to occur.

I had wondered along with all this if the super-caps had somehow lost their ability to hold a charge in these conditions but upon checking the footage the proper date and time is on all the clips. There is something else at play here.

Interestingly, when the camera first starts to run in these extreme cold temperatures, the video clips show a serious out-of-focus shift in the footage that slowly begins to return to normal as the camera warms up. Some of the footage seems to have a sort of slightly grainy appearance but I need to explore that further.
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I believe 12 F/-24 C may be slightly out of normal operating temps. Could it be condensation in the case freezing, or is that far fetched nonsense? I highly doubt the battery version would fare better. When things go teens to single digits, my Mobius go inside, though 20s seem not to affect it. Keep us posted on what you find
 
GJHS said:
As suggested by @Isoprop, I have started a support thread for the Mobius. Here you will find useful information and support for the Mobius, as well as solutions to many situations. This is your go to guide for any questions or problems so:

Please post all support requests and problems here, do not start a new thread. Read posts #1-8 first. If you can't find your answer there then post your question or support request :D

The information found in posts #1-8 come from the RC Support Thread and is current as of Feb 12, 2014 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904559). The authors of this information are Tom Frank and Isoprop to whom we owe a huge Thank You for all their support of this camera and it's users.

If you find any mistakes, please send me a private message, as not to waste space here.
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Hi there.
I've tried to find the solution to this problem, but can't see a reference. I use the Mobius in the car plugged into the cigarette lighter. Firmware version 2.25. All has worked fine, with the loop recording etc. Also immediate on/off when I Start/Stop car has been OK. I've checked the recordings on the card and all OK. All worked fine until quite recently when, during recording, and the main and back LED flashing in sync OK, the main LED would suddenly flash blue and then the rear LED flash red 2/3 times, the main LED green would come on briefly, and then the rear red and main amber flash briefly, then the sequence repeats a few times before the unit switches off and with just the main green LED on to indicate it's charging.

I then unplug and replug in and it basically does the same. I've reset, formatted the card etc, but can't seem to find the solution. Any ideas please? Thanks
 
In theory should be ok as I only bought this just before Christmas. If I just turn it on without external power it seems alright. Worth changing do you think? Thanks.
 
GJHS said:
I believe 12 F/-24 C may be slightly out of normal operating temps. Could it be condensation in the case freezing, or is that far fetched nonsense? I highly doubt the battery version would fare better. When things go teens to single digits, my Mobius go inside, though 20s seem not to affect it. Keep us posted on what you find
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No doubt -12 degrees Fahrenheit is beyond the design specs of the Mobius. I just thought it would be interesting to post about my experience since virtually all of the discussions here at DCT about ambient temperatures and dash cams focus on extremes of heat. Although I do recall someone did mention the issue of condensation quite some time ago (mostly on the lens), in my case the whole camera appears to have been frozen solid. I would be interested to hear whether anyone else has anything to report about dash cams in general and the Mobius in particular, failing to perform or behaving oddly in very cold weather.

In my case, because of the winter conditions where I live, extreme low temperatures are a regular issue, although usually not to the sub zero extremes mentioned in my earlier post. (at the moment it is +13 degrees F at 10:50 AM - sort of normal for mid January around here) With the dash cams I have in use at the moment, (often 4 of them) I always will go to the trouble of taking any lithium battery operated cameras indoors at night because one should never charge frozen lithium-ion batteries *. Then again, it is just not practical to remove and reinstall every camera every time I want to use my vehicle. This is especially so with the super-capacitor based Mobius I have mounted in the headliner above my rear windshield. The lens is quite close to the glass, which means that any attempt to slide it out of its cradle requires re-aiming the camera when mounted back in my vehicle. I usually do this with a 7 inch LCD monitor and an external power supply, which is impractical to do every time I want to leave my house, especially when it is really cold out. Up until this past week the Mobius has performed admirably in the cold weather and from what I can tell so far, the problem with a failed start of the camera only begins when the temps fall to 15 degrees F and below.

Since the humidity drops to a very low percentage at such cold temperatures, I don't believe the problem has anything to do with condensation. The problem "seems" to be electronic but it is interesting that I get three red flashes when the camera first gets power but then fails to start. It is as if some component on the board needs to heat up slightly before the camera can complete the start-up process. Of course, I am just speculating about this. Perhaps someones else can offer some insight. In any event, the fact that this super-capped Mobius, when deeply frozen, will boot-up and function normally after two or three minutes of power and that the frozen out-of-focus lens will return to sharpness is a real testament to just how well made these devices are. My report about what is happening here is not intended as a complaint but rather a topic for discussion.

* "Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a subfreezing charge. The plating is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are known to be more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions." (Battery University)

Edit: It is the plating of metallic lithium on the cell anode (and the formation of cobalt oxide) that can lead to swelling and battery fires in these types of batteries and this is the "failure" being referred to in the above quote. (DM)
 
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Thanks Dashmellow.
About 10 days ago we have a few overnight lows of - 5 degrees C and next morning my Mobius did not start. No red led. I unplug and plug connection and unit start working. Ambient temp then was about +5 degrees C. Next morning Mobius did not start again but I drove without unplug and plug thinking it'll work when car warms up. It didn't. Still have to unplug and plug to start it. Afterwards no problem at all.
After downloading the clips to my PC I notice some jerky recording for a few frames or so on the first clip then smooth out as normal.
I also suspect the extreme cold affects the electronics.
 
It's kind of reassuring to hear that someone else has had a similar experience with an apparently frozen Mobius, Bungus. It's also interesting to hear about the jerky footage. I was expecting to find issues of one sort or another with the footage from my frozen Mobius but so far everything seems to be working properly after the camera finally starts up; that is, other than the image being out of focus until the camera warms up.

Bungus said:
Thanks Dashmellow.
About 10 days ago we have a few overnight lows of - 5 degrees C and next morning my Mobius did not start. No red led. I unplug and plug connection and unit start working. Ambient temp then was about +5 degrees C. Next morning Mobius did not start again but I drove without unplug and plug thinking it'll work when car warms up. It didn't. Still have to unplug and plug to start it. Afterwards no problem at all.
After downloading the clips to my PC I notice some jerky recording for a few frames or so on the first clip then smooth out as normal.
I also suspect the extreme cold affects the electronics.
Click to expand...
 
I ran mine -25 C and it was fine.

Of course I turn on my heater when I start my car
 
I turn on my heater too when it's so cold out but obviously it takes some time for the vehicle and the camera to come up to temperature, at which point it is no longer -25 C.
 
Hey I finally got around the checking the battery and another day worth of testing. So when I opened up the camera it didnt appear to have anything wrong with it. No bulging or anything like that.

The testing yielded some odd results though. The camera will now record my trip to work fine after bringing the camera out but on the way home will only record 5 or 6 segments of 3 min each. I was wondering if any of you have had a similar experience and a way to fix this problem..

Thanks.
 
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