Mobius support thread and Tech Guide (post all problems/help requests here) Read posts #1-8 first

Same here. Also, last year there was -20 and lower ~2 weeks a row and my mobius was in car 24/7. Worked fine. Only one problem - mobius battery got emtpy such a cold weather and time went incorrect.

Even if your Mobius is functioning normally in such extreme cold temperatures it will degrade and eventually ruin the battery because lithium-ion batteries should not be charged at temperatures below freezing.

See: Battery University - Charging at High and Low Temperatures ----"Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion (& lithium-polymer) batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a subfreezing charge. The plating is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are known to be more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions."

"Failure" in this case means the increasing inability to accept a full charge, swelling and in certain rare circumstances, thermal runaway (fires) during the charge cycle.

Super-capacitors are the way to go in freezing as well as hot environments.
 
Once the Mobius starts recording, the internal temperatures will likely be above freezing within a minute or two.
 
Once the Mobius starts recording, the internal temperatures will likely be above freezing within a minute or two.

You are still putting a charge into a deeply frozen battery and under any circumstances it will still take much longer than a "minute or two" to thaw a frozen battery.
 
You are still putting a charge into a deeply frozen battery and under any circumstances it will still take much longer than a "minute or two" to thaw a frozen battery.

Maybe a little longer, but not an issue ( dry battery).
 
Maybe a little longer, but not an issue ( dry battery).

When lithium batteries are frozen the resistance increases dramatically. They would need to be charged at a lower rate but that won't happen in a dash cam. Your notions about this are wishful thinking.
 
There's a lot of misconceptions about the sustainability and general suitability of batteries in dashcams, how and when they're powered and the environment they're used in has an impact on the performance despite what some people would like to have you believe
 
Jokiin is right. There are a lot of misconceptions about batteries, not just in dash cams but in many applications. It is best to get information from legitimate, knowledgeable authorities rather than hearsay and guesswork.

Two excellent sources are:

Handbook of Batteries (Fourth Edition) edited by David Linden and Dr. Thomas B. Reddy (a pioneer in the lithium battery field).

Batteries in a Portable World - A Handbook on Rechargeable Batteries for Non-Engineers by Isador Buchmann (The man behind Battery University)
 
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When lithium batteries are frozen the resistance increases dramatically. They would need to be charged at a lower rate but that won't happen in a dash cam. Your notions about this are wishful thinking.

The Mobius' battery being depleted ( time reset) in freezing temperatures when used as a typical dashcam ( plugged in with sufficient power) is not normal.


Simultaneous Charging and Recording using standard USB cables/adapters

The cable can be connected to any USB power source as long as the power source can supply 5 Volts under load. Note: Some USB hubs do not supply enough current. If the USB hub can't supply a nominal voltage under load, the camera will run on the internal battery which will be flat before the battery has a chance to charge!

When powering from an external USB power source, the cable can be connected at any time, e.g. when the camera is turned off, before starting the recording, during the recording.

• Battery being charged from flat, powered off: 186mA @ 4.97v
• Battery being charged from flat, recording 1080p: average 505mA @ 4.95v


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25178941&postcount=7
 
It is completely irrelevant whether the battery is flat, is holding a charge, or when you connect a power source; lithium batteries should not be charged when frozen, period!

Isoprop's lengthy post to the RCgroups forum in no way ever mentions the issues involved with batteries being charged when deeply frozen, even once. Why even bring it into the discussion?

If you want to rationalize that it is OK to charge your batteries at -25 degrees C, be my guest, it's your privilege, but don't try to convince anybody else that it is a good practice. Get some actual facts.
 
It is completely irrelevant whether the battery is flat, is holding a charge, or when you connect a power source; lithium batteries should not be charged when frozen, period!

Isoprop's lengthy post to the RCgroups forum in no way ever mentions the issues involved with batteries being charged when deeply frozen, even once. Why even bring it into the discussion?

If you want to rationalize that it is OK to charge your batteries at -25 degrees C, be my guest, it's your privilege, but don't try to convince anybody else that it is a good practice. Get some actual facts.


Why are you discounting the heat generated by the Mobius in recording mode?
 
Why are you discounting the heat generated by the Mobius in recording mode?

Jokiin posted while I was typing the same answer. By the time the battery warms up, especially since we've been talking about sub zero temps here, the incremental and irreversible damage done by charging it while frozen has already happened.
 
In general continually freezing Lipos isn't good for the battery.
 
Will take a bit to get up to temp though, won't happen instantly
Jokiin posted while I was typing the same answer. By the time the battery warms up, especially since we've been talking about sub zero temps here, the incremental and irreversible damage done by charging it while frozen has already happened.

I don't think it will impact the Mobius' useful life expectancy much ( keeping the time) as a dashcam. The main concern is over charging in freezing temperatures - a Mobius that is turned off and connected to a live power source for example. The charging heat inside the Mobius might not overcome the freezing temperatures.

In general continually freezing Lipos isn't good for the battery.
Powering them at either extreme, hot or cold, is no good for them

Thermal shock is a problem for just about anything.
 
I don't think it will impact the Mobius' useful life expectancy much ( keeping the time) as a dashcam. The main concern is over charging in freezing temperatures - a Mobius that is turned off and connected to a live power source for example. The charging heat inside the Mobius might not overcome the freezing temperatures.

Thermal shock is a problem for just about anything.

The issue is not the life expectancy of the Mobius, it is the life expectancy and safety of the battery. And the main concern is not "over charging" in freezing temperatures, it is charging of any sort below freezing (0ºC - 32ºF).

@Signhere, I previously suggested that you get the facts rather than use rationalization or statements such as "I don't think", etc. Respectfully, you seem to be ignoring the facts. In post #1105 I quoted Isador Buchmann's very clear explanation of what happens when you charge a lithium battery below freezing and why it is not a good practice. Actually, his exact words are "cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F)". Consider reading the full text it was extracted from in the link I provided.

Most people seem to be aware that lithium-ion batteries can present safety issues or that they can lose the ability to accept a charge when not maintained properly but many find the processes involved to be mysterious. It is really very simple and straightforward however and both of those problems are related.

In a lithium-ion rechargeable battery both the positive electrode (cathode) and the negative electrode (anode) can bind lithium ions from lithium oxide that migrate back and forth between the cathode and anode during the charging and discharging process. When the battery is discharging, the lithium ions moving back to the cathode release energy in the process and this is how the battery powers your device.

Unfortunately, lithium-ion batteries have the propensity to form lithium metal from the lithium oxide ions over time and the depositing of lithium metal can be dramatically accelerated when the battery comes under stress from shock, vibration, improper charging, over-discharging and extremes of heat or cold.

When the lithium ions within the battery convert to lithium metal deposits (lithium plating) there are then fewer and fewer lithium-ions available for the process of storing and transferring energy to your device as more and more lithium metal forms. This is one of the primary things that is happening when the battery begins having trouble holding a charge. Most of the time, you'll just end up with dramatically shortened battery life or maybe a swollen battery but at a certain point, this plating process can result in physical damage to the battery that can even cause a short circuit. Unfortunately, lithium metal is highly flammable and so this can ultimately result in a fire, or worse, in extreme cases, an explosion if the electrolyte package overheats, bursts and forms a mist in the air where a lot of oxygen suddenly becomes available to the reaction. Thankfully, these kind of extreme events are rare but they happen enough that one should not ignore this issue, especially in the stressful and constantly changing environment of an automobile.

Since it known that charging a lithium battery when it is below freezing causes and even accelerates the deposition of lithium metal, this is why it should not be done.
 
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The issue is not the life expectancy of the Mobius, it is the life expectancy and safety of the battery. And the main concern is not "over charging" in freezing temperatures, it is charging of any sort below freezing (0ºC - 32ºF).

@Signhere, I previously suggested that you get the facts rather than use rationalization or statements such as "I don't think", etc. Respectfully, you seem to be ignoring the facts. In post #1105 I quoted Isador Buchmann's very clear explanation of what happens when you charge a lithium battery below freezing and why it is not a good practice. Actually, his exact words are "cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F)". Consider reading the full text it was extracted from in the link I provided.

.. .

So how you think why we are not seeing hordes of people complaining about time resetting over the freezing winter? And why my Mobius which has been in freezing temperatures for about 1440 hours (past three months) and is working without any problems as a dashcam?
 
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the battery can still hold a charge below freezing or that it is still working after three months.

This is a ridiculous discussion at this point and I have nothing further to say on the subject.
 
So how you think why we are not seeing hordes of people complaining about time resetting over the freezing winter? And why my Mobius which has been in freezing temperatures for about 1440 hours (past three months) and is working without any problems as a dashcam?

@Signhere, although there are not hordes of people, there is a select few who are having some issues with freezing temperatures with no explanation so far. I too have a mobius which works for many hours in the freezing cold, but I also have one that is giving me a headache...
 
@Signhere, although there are not hordes of people, there is a select few who are having some issues with freezing temperatures with no explanation so far. I too have a mobius which works for many hours in the freezing cold, but I also have one that is giving me a headache...

I'd like to point out that there are two separate issues being discussed here. One is the inadvisability of charging lithium-ion batteries in temps below freezing and the other is that some folks have had problems with their Mobius cameras failing to boot-up in sub zero temps. In fact, I was the one who first brought this subject up in the first place when I reported the issue in this thread back on January 9th and wanted to hear if anyone had experienced this. In my case, however, the camera sports a super-capacitor, so the battery was not part of the issue.

BTW, having had two and a half weeks to further explore the issue, the camera take 90 seconds or less to start-up at 10 degrees Fahrenheit or below after being briefly unplugged and replugged for a reboot. The super-cap holds the date and time throughout.
 
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