nanoQ 0903

Rayman.Chan · Mar 30, 2016

DennisOlof said:
But how about the sound ? Is it only PCM ?

Checked with our engineer yesterday, only PCM works on this for now.

Rayman.Chan · Mar 30, 2016

cyrix2000 said:
I'm wondering if an even lower f number would be really useful for dash cams as the depth of field reduces with decreasing f numbers (only objects at a specific distance are in focus).

yes this is correct. muore difficulty on focusing the lens. we tested and test and test many times to make things better and better.
and the reject rate is the lens is much higher.

Rayman.Chan · Mar 30, 2016

blake said:
Yea F1.2 is a little insane. The DOF on that is wafer-thin. For sure only the center of the video would be in focus, all edges would be more out of focus.

a long lens body will help, but not works for dash camera use......

Rayman.Chan · Mar 30, 2016

lacibaci said:
I uploaded a sample with 20M bitrate to mega:This is with my new CPL.

@lacibaci, do you think the video is still a little more bright than you need?
what is your result in the night?

Nigel · Mar 30, 2016

Rayman.Chan said:
sorry Nigle, I will arrange a new lens for you, I believe you have the skill to do the mod work

Yes, I can replace the lens, but maybe it would make more sense to send one of the next batch with all the new fixes. Currently I have the following issues with my early camera:

The lens will not stay in focus.
GPS does not work except to set the time very occasionally.
The clock forgets the time when the car is parked so the loop recording keeps deleting the new recordings instead of the old recordings. (I think it has been better since I did the modification, but it still forgets the time regularly and the GPS does not correct the time until 30-60 minutes into the journey so I have to empty the card every 10 hours of driving if I don't want to loose everything new.)
The mount has a lot of visible vibration that also blurs the image, at traffic lights I can see it go blurred when I increase the engine speed, I can not see a way to fix it without gluing the camera permanently onto the mount.
The bitrate I have been using is too low for use on 100kph UK roads.

These can all be fixed or maybe have already been fixed and apart from the problems I really like the little camera.

blake · Mar 30, 2016

Nigel said:
Yes, I can replace the lens, but maybe it would make more sense to send one of the next batch with all the new fixes. Currently I have the following issues with my early camera:

The lens will not stay in focus.

GPS does not work except to set the time very occasionally.

The clock forgets the time when the car is parked so the loop recording keeps deleting the new recordings instead of the old recordings. (I think it has been better since I did the modification, but it still forgets the time regularly and the GPS does not correct the time until 30-60 minutes into the journey so I have to empty the card every 10 hours of driving if I don't want to loose everything new.)

The mount has a lot of visible vibration that also blurs the image, at traffic lights I can see it go blurred when I increase the engine speed, I can not see a way to fix it without gluing the camera permanently onto the mount.

The bitrate I have been using is too low for use on 100kph UK roads.

These can all be fixed or maybe have already been fixed and apart from the problems I really like the little camera.

Some of those problems (gps, bitrate) have probably been mitigated with the new fw release, have you tried it?

Sunny · Mar 30, 2016

Nigel said:
Yes, I can replace the lens, but maybe it would make more sense to send one of the next batch with all the new fixes. Currently I have the following issues with my early camera:

The lens will not stay in focus.

GPS does not work except to set the time very occasionally.

The clock forgets the time when the car is parked so the loop recording keeps deleting the new recordings instead of the old recordings. (I think it has been better since I did the modification, but it still forgets the time regularly and the GPS does not correct the time until 30-60 minutes into the journey so I have to empty the card every 10 hours of driving if I don't want to loose everything new.)

The mount has a lot of visible vibration that also blurs the image, at traffic lights I can see it go blurred when I increase the engine speed, I can not see a way to fix it without gluing the camera permanently onto the mount.

The bitrate I have been using is too low for use on 100kph UK roads.

These can all be fixed or maybe have already been fixed and apart from the problems I really like the little camera.

Pretty much the same issues what I posted.

lacibaci · Mar 30, 2016

Rayman.Chan said:
@lacibaci, do you think the video is still a little more bright than you need?
what is your result in the night?

I still have the 3/29 20M firmware loaded on my cam so I will drive around tonight and post video on MEGA. I have not tried 16M version. Will there be another firmware that fixes the wifi problem you mentioned earlier?
At the moment, I don't use the wifi host functionality so as long as there is no other ill effect, I'm fine with the current one.

Nigel · Mar 30, 2016

blake said:
Some of those problems (gps, bitrate) have probably been mitigated with the new fw release, have you tried it?

I used 3.21.2016 over last weekend, about 600KM of driving, there are a few bits with GPS data but most of it either has nothing or just G-Sensor data. The bitrate is OK for low speed, around the city, but a bit low for high speed roads.

Although most of it is either out of focus or blurred by vibration so it is not so easy to tell if the bitrate was good, the main issue in this clip is vibration, the 0806 and other cameras mounted in the same place do not have the vibration issue:

The sound is good on this camera 🙂

Edit: Thinking about it, recording the vibration probably requires extra bitrate so without the vibration the bitrate may be OK

DennisOlof · Mar 30, 2016

Nigel, yeah that is a concern of mine to, that they have not started developing anti vibration mounts of mounting, to eliminate
shaking in the video etc. It has a huge impact on quality of video, even at high speed. Same thing for people using FPV radio
controlled aircraft that get jello in the video etc. It is horrible, sure, image stabilization helps but it can only do so much.

One of the clips from the 0903 I downloaded from mega (someone posted) had a good enough bit rate, about 23Mbps
for 1080p 30fps and that is enough for good video, and occasional blocky video, but for the most part should be
fine. The image quality was great and you could read license plates easy.

But I think, if the people at the "mini" camp could come up with a nice smart anti vibration mounting for the camera
that would help a lot with the quality of the picture. The problem is that when you are filming thing far away, little
shaking has a lot of impact on the image compared to when things are close up to the camera. It would need some sort
of semi-suspending of the camera in the air, attached to the windscreen. Do not ask me how, but if you look at how many
of these mounts are made, you could probably create something that would work great.

The sound is real good, great microphone, although I would prefer the option to use AAC audio instead of PCM
but that is something they can add in firmware anyway, no big deal. I know it takes time to work out bugs, add
new options etc. As long as the hardware is good 🙂

Sunny · Mar 30, 2016

Rayman.Chan said:
@Sunny, please use this firmware to update your nanoQ and have a try again.
the IQ in last firmware was adjusted to improve the night view but seems too much for day light.

3.29 log:
1, revise GPS STAMP on screen
2, correct SCREEN OFF DELAY
3, correct time zone setting -- please test
4, optimize IQ setting, reduce the exposure -- please test
5, correct HDR icon display
6, increase video bit rate to 16M and 20M, please test

16M bit rate version:
www.nanodashcamera.com/firmware/mar.29/mini0903-20160329-test16M.7z
20M bit rate version:
www.nanodashcamera.com/firmware/mar.29/mini0903-20160329-test20M.7z

guys please check if this exposure is ok for both day and night, and if the different bit rates works for you camera&card.
looking forward your feedback.
Thanks
Rayman

I tested 3-29-16mbps FW today but today is bad day for testing.
It was cloudy and snowing so white skies regardless.
Here's a video clip, 1st 25 seconds have audio to show the vibrations/rattling and after that focus is better than last time but today is cold snowy day.

I think the exposure is better as I can see some dark areas in the sky but need to test again when sky is blue.

2016_03_30_NanoQ_16mbps.mov_20160330_200454.671.webp

MilMascaras · Mar 31, 2016

Wondering about the audio bitrate being captured.
PCM 32000Hz mono 512kbs.

PCM 32000Hz mono 512kbs is quite an unusual choice.
32000Hz (32kHz) mono is way above what the human ear can hear.
(humans can only hear ~20Hz to 20kHz with perfect ears)

Might you consider capturing your Mono audio at 22.05kHz?
Whatever audio codec and bitrate you use (PCM, AAC, etc) would be up to your chipset and your audio capture algorithm.

PCM Audio is a lossless format, and is commonly used for pro-video capture, mixing and mastering,
usually at 16-bit, 24-bit, 32bit - 44.1kHz-48kHz-96kHz.
(mp3, AAC, wmv, etc are "lossy" formats)

Lossless PCM Audio at “Lossless CD Quality” is:
16bit 44100kHz stereo at a maximum bitrate of 1411kbps.
Mono would be 16bit 22.05kHz at maximum audio bitrate of 705 kbps.
("Lossy" AAC or mp3 audio would usually be ~ 320 kbps Stereo / 160 kbps Mono.)

For distribution (not pro video master sourcing, not DVD), the most common modern standards seem to be:
MPEG4 H.264 Video, and AAC Audio (320kbs Stereo / 160kbps Mono)
MOV is a wrapper that can easily handle H.264 Video with AAC Audio natively.

Just a thought about your audio capture choice from someone who does quite a bit of Video and Audio editing for commercial distribution purposes.

I am purposely not discussing your Video bit-rate, as I can see from other discussions about that being addressed, and will look forward to whatever happens with future firmwares and chipsets…

Thank you.
(Mini 0805 owner wanting to acquire a Mini 0903 Nano Q soon...)

Nigel · Mar 31, 2016

MilMascaras said:
Wondering about the audio bitrate being captured.
PCM 32000Hz mono 512kbs.

PCM 32000Hz mono 512kbs is quite an unusual choice.
32000Hz (32kHz) mono is way above what the human ear can hear.
(humans can only hear ~20Hz to 20kHz with perfect ears)

Might you consider capturing your Mono audio at 22.05kHz?
Whatever audio codec and bitrate you use (PCM, AAC, etc) would be up to your chipset and your audio capture algorithm.

PCM Audio is a lossless format, and is commonly used for pro-video capture, mixing and mastering,
usually at 16-bit, 24-bit, 32bit - 44.1kHz-48kHz-96kHz.
(mp3, AAC, wmv, etc are "lossy" formats)

Lossless PCM Audio at “Lossless CD Quality” is:
16bit 44100kHz stereo at a maximum bitrate of 1411kbps.
Mono would be 16bit 22.05kHz at maximum audio bitrate of 705 kbps.
("Lossy" AAC or mp3 audio would usually be ~ 320 kbps Stereo / 160 kbps Mono.)

For distribution (not pro video master sourcing, not DVD), the most common modern standards seem to be:
MPEG4 H.264 Video, and AAC Audio (320kbs Stereo / 160kbps Mono)
MOV is a wrapper that can easily handle H.264 Video with AAC Audio natively.

Just a thought about your audio capture choice from someone who does quite a bit of Video and Audio editing for commercial distribution purposes.

I am purposely not discussing your Video bit-rate, as I can see from other discussions about that being addressed, and will look forward to whatever happens with future firmwares and chipsets…

Thank you.
(Mini 0805 owner wanting to acquire a Mini 0903 Nano Q soon...)

I think you have this wrong: "Mono would be 16bit 22.05kHz at maximum audio bitrate of 705 kbps."
Mono or Stereo does not change the sample rate, you only need to change the bitrate.

The 32kHz it is using means that it can only record sound waves up to 16KHz which means the sound will be slightly dull but fine for a dashcam. You don't want it less than that, it would ruin the sound quality for a space saving that would allow only an extra few minutes of video per card. Use of uncompressed PCM may not be ideal but again, the sound uses so much less space than the video that you will not notice the loss of space and I don't believe there is any other option for this chipset at present.

I think the 0903 has the best sound of any dashcam I have tried, even action cameras used as dashcams, lets not spoil it by changing things for very small gains in record time.

MilMascaras · Mar 31, 2016

Nigel said:
The 32kHz it is using means that it can only record sound waves up to 16KHz which means the sound will be slightly dull but fine for a dashcam. .

That would be for 16kHz per channel in a 2-channel stereo recording for a total of 32kHz to support your example.
Since this cam is recording in mono, we are talking about a single channel only....
22.05 kHz MONO would not be fuzzy, would be nearly studio quality for mono.

And the 705 kbps bitrate "maximum" I was referring too was for a (nearly) audiophile lossless CD quality recording in mono,
i.e. commercial 'Redbook' CD recording of a symphonic orchestra in stereo downmixed to single channel mono in lossless PCM,
so the usage of: PCM 32000Hz mono 512kbs seems like quite an unusual nearly arbitrary choice.

Whatever, it was just an observation of the unusual inefficient non standard audio bitrate encoding capture choice of the current spec. I'm professionally well versed in audio specifications, but I could be wrong, confused, sleepy, and unaware of the peculiarities and parameters considered by a DashCam manufacturer, so I would apologize and defer to designer and manufacturer, nonetheless...

The manufacturer has enough other things to worry about, audio fine tuning is secondary;
I look forward to the next revision to the Nano Q, am still satisfied with my 0805, but will get 1 more new cam soon...

ljw2k · Apr 2, 2016

Received my Nano 0903 today from Diggcams which only took just over a week to arrive which is pretty impressive with the shipping.

I was all set for the installation into my car after I tested it and set all the settings but noticed that the mount had damaged one of the 3 pins on the camera and looks like it has been manufactured badly as in the pictures detailed below.

The main problem/issue I see is on the GPS mount their is a small raised plastic in front of the pin which has been damaged and it also looks raised compared to the opposite side, I feel this has done the damage to one of the 3 camera's gold connection pins.

Nigel · Apr 2, 2016

ljw2k said:
Received my Nano 0903 today from Diggcams which only took just over a week to arrive which is pretty impressive with the shipping.

I was all set for the installation into my car after I tested it and set all the settings but noticed that the mount had damaged one of the 3 pins on the camera and looks like it has been manufactured badly as in the pictures detailed below.

The main problem/issue I see is on the GPS mount their is a small raised plastic in front of the pin which has been damaged and it also looks raised compared to the opposite side, I feel this has done the damage to one of the 3 camera's gold connection pins.

Looks a bit like that pin is mounted backwards?
And maybe because of that is damaging the plastic mount?

ljw2k · Apr 2, 2016

I don't think the pin is back to front Nigel, If you look the pins come out the camera in a V shape and when I have pushed the Mount on the camera it has flattened it. It is hard to photograph especially from a Mobile Phone camera.

The raised piece of plastic/moulding has caused the damage in my opinion from a bad moulding. If you also look at the GPS mount it is also raised piece of plastic around the screw.

blake · Apr 2, 2016

ljw2k said:
I don't think the pin is back to front Nigel, If you look the pins come out the camera in a V shape and when I have pushed the Mount on the camera it has flattened it. It is hard to photograph especially from a Mobile Phone camera.

The raised piece of plastic/moulding has caused the damage in my opinion from a bad moulding. If you also look at the GPS mount it is also raised piece of plastic around the screw.

Sand it down with a nail file.