Need focal length and sensor size Mobius 1 camera.

Discussion in 'General Dash Cam Discussion' started by Lola, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Lola

    Lola Well-Known Member

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    I am having trouble getting the focal length of the Mobius 1 A lens and the Sensor size.

    I thought the sensor was 1/3" but I've seen on several places people say it is 1/2.7 Anyone really know?

    A lens I thought FOV was 87 degrees but I have seen 90* mentioned also, any one know for sure?
    The focal length of this lens is something I haven't been able to find at all any one know for sure what it is?

    I tried to get this information from mobius.com but they said I had to be a customer after I typed out all the information on their ask us form.
     
  2. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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  3. SawMaster

    SawMaster Well-Known Member

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    Mobius, G1W-S, G1W-HC, WR-1, G1W clone, and more to come!
    ^^ Nice resource ^^ Added to my bookmarks :D
    Phil
     
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  4. Lola

    Lola Well-Known Member

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    Is the Mobius 1 sensor the AR0330 ? If so, the link says it's a 1/3 format. Thank you very much.
    Now all I need is the fl of the A lens. You wouldn't happen to know that would you?
     
  5. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    yes it's the AR0330, the lens spec I have no idea, they don't release any details
     
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  6. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    @Lola, I'm a bit puzzled. Last Friday you asked the same question when you wanted to know about the lens coverage required for the Mobius sensor when we had that discussion about "Circle of Coverage" and the varifocal lens I installed.
    I said, "The sensor in the Mobius is the Aptina AR0330 which happens to be 1/3", so it's a good match!". I guess you forgot?

    Unfortunately, Peter repeatedly avoided my questions about the specs for the various Mobius lenses. I can understand him wanting to not reveal the hardware components in the cameras for fear of cloning but refusing to provide basic lens specs is ridiculous. His last answer to my direct question about this topic was so obtuse and obfuscatatory that it was kind of a work of art which I've contemplated posting but feel a certain reluctance.
     
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  7. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    I don't know any manufacturer that will release their exact lens spec, when we all have access to the same chipsets and CMOS sensors the lens is the one thing you can do to differentiate a product from a competitor, the hardware spec is something they can't hide (even though they tried) as anyone with a hex editor and a copy of the firmware can easily see what is being used
     
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  8. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    Seems many cameras are on the market that provide the aperture and at least the FOV. I notice you mention the number of elements in the GC lens. So, tell me though, how do you "differentiate a product from a competitor" if you won't reveal what the difference is?
     
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  9. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    we provide a few details, not all though, their issue is not about wanting to hide the details from end users but rather from competitors
     
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  10. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    I guess this is one of the reasons (among others I've spoken of recently) that I consider dash cams to be merely gadgets rather than real cameras. Manufacturers of actual cameras would never dream of withholding lens specifications from buyers because people who are interested in making images want and need to know such information to make an informed decision between one product or another. The lens is one of the most important components of a camera. Even the idea of mentioning the number of glass elements in a dash camera lens without the other key data is nothing more than a marketing gimmick as, for example, a 5 element lens of superior design and construction can easily outperform a given lens with 7 elements of lesser quality. No photographer or videographer would ever buy a lens from a manufacturer who refused to provide the focal length. I hope one day dash cams are manufactured and sold more like "real" cameras where their specs are made available just the way we've lately been discussing various lens specs and quality as available from various after market suppliers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  11. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Can't see it happening anytime soon
     
  12. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    Well no. I don't expect dash cam manufacturers to make anything other than consumer gadgets. (no offense intended here jokiin, it's just the plain truth of your industry)

    On the other hand, speaking of "real" cameras from "real" camera manufacturers, if you look at the lens specs for the Nikon action cameras such as their Key Mission 360 you'll see:

    Focal Length 1.6mm
    35mm-Equivalent Focal Length 8.7
    Maximum Aperture f/2
    Lens Elements 7
    Minimum Focusing Distance 11.8" / 30.0 cm

    For the Nikon Key Mission 80 action camera:

    Focal Length 4.5mm
    35mm-Equivalent Focal Length 25
    Maximum Aperture f/2
    Minimum Focusing Distance 4.0" / 10.2 cm
    Fixed Focus
    Angle of View Medium: 80°

    If you look at the lens specs on Sony's new RXO 1 inch sensor action camera you'll see:

    Zeiss optic
    Focal Length 7.7mm
    35mm-Equivalent Focal Length 24
    Maximum Aperture f/4
    Lens Elements 6
    Minimum Focusing Distance 20.0" / 50.8 cm
    Fixed Focus
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  13. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    these are action cameras with a very different target (more of an enthusiast type) market

    in professional dash camera products that cost into the thousands of dollars there are only very basic lens specs offered, at that level not divulging the spec isn't about the concern of being copied as is the case with the cheaper products but more about the reality that this is not an enthusiast market and the people that are buying them are like most, they don't really care what the spec is, they just care that they work

    even if the spec was offered there are very few that actually understand the spec, there's no way for an end user to know if the spec offered is correct or not either, 99% of manufacturers don't even quote accurate FOV numbers and that's the one thing that could be measured, there's no hope of getting accurate numbers on anything else as the bulk of them would just publish what they think you want to read like they do with FOV numbers now
     
  14. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    Well, no they are more in the realm of professional cameras that are built to a high standard of precision and durability, something that unfortunately we will never see in the dash cam market regardless of what kind of specs are or are not published.

    And even point and shoot pocket cameras publish the lens specs such as focal length and aperture. From my long experience teaching photography even the average Joe knows what those simple specs mean and uses those specs to make purchase decisions. You should give consumers more credit than you apparently do.

    The rest of your post sounds like the typical gobbledygook that makes me shake my head all the time around here. The notion that, "99% of manufacturers don't even quote accurate FOV numbers" and "there's no way for an end user to know if the spec offered is correct or not either" and that this is somehow the acceptable norm is part and parcel with what I see as wrong in your industry, but obviously there's lots of profit in that model and you seem quite comfortable with that even as you otherwise tout the quality of your brand. 99%? So are you suggesting you're in the 1 percent?

    I happen to believe that there is indeed a stronger "enthusiast" consumer interest for a larger percentage of dash cam users than you may believe and even without that. I believe many people would be delighted to buy a well built, precision made product manufactured to the exacting standards of "real" cameras rather than the typical dash cam gadget product which is nothing more than a circuit board often screwed into a generic "public" plastic housing like your GC. It's a funny thing when you have an industry that is always boasting about the optics in their products but won't tell you what you've got.

    As for people allegedly not caring what the specs are but "they just care that they work", the problem is that too many dash cams so often don't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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  15. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    you can buy a $4000 pro dashcam product and will still only get offered very basic spec about the lens
     
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  16. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    Well, that certainly doesn't say much of anything good about your industry does it? It would mean that even a $4000" cash cam is bogus. Please provide an example of "$4000" pro dashcam in that category.
     
  17. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    that's your take on it apparently

    here you go ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/videosurveillance/arbitrator360/arbitrator360_specsheet.pdf from some fly by night company called Panasonic
     
  18. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    Please explain how the specs are bogus.
     
  19. jokiin

    jokiin Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    I never said they were bogus
     
  20. Dashmellow

    Dashmellow Well-Known Member

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    You started out claiming that, ""99% of manufacturers don't even quote accurate FOV numbers" and "there's no way for an end user to know if the spec offered is correct or not either".

    Now we are somehow over here talking about a different subject. But still, one could hardly describe that data sheet as "basic" specs even if they don't get into the aperture of the lens of such a complex product, they do go into the angular field of view of each lens in the system in highly specific detail.

    I think you are really reaching here to defend your little plastic cameras. This is entirely unrelated to your industry or the types of cameras I've been referring to for that matter.
     
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