Powerbank Battery for a Dashcam

[reverend]

It's this one I bought - literally a brand spanker:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B01DG45AE2
It's a nice unit - in fact I'd say that Poweradd one at 10050mAh is heavier than the 20000mAh one I have here (which does appear to be charging way too quickly for a 20000mAh unit)!! The official specs show the 10050mAh one at 220g and the 20000mAh one at 322g so maybe it's been in storage too long.

It's covered by a two year warranty so hopefully it should last out - the Anker one I have seems to have had no issues whatsoever over time.

I'll see how the Vivis one goes and let you know - this one is the Vivis and maybe like you say it will get better over time.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B01A86T3VM

 

[Dashmellow]

That PowerAdd must be a new model as it doesn't seem to be on their web site just yet. That's the first PowerAdd I've seen with the Qualcomm technology.

Here's the PowerAdd contact page if it should turn out that your unit has an issue. That page was one of the reasons I decided to buy from them as other more generic Chinese banks have only a vague web support presence.

I did a little searching around and found a few confirmations of my notion that lithium-ion batteries need exercise and that a new battery bank should be cycled several times for best performance.

Symantec's battery advice (which is cited from Isador Buchmann, the man behind Battery University) says:

"New Li-ion batteries will work best if fully charged, and drained, for the first three charging cycles after purchase. So, after each charge, use the device until the battery completely runs out of juice, says Isidor Buchmann, author of Batteries in a Portable World"

TechRepublic says:

"Batteries are made to be used, so use them. Just like couch potatoes, batteries need exercise. The chemicals in Lithium-Ion batteries respond best to regular recharging."

 

[Dashmellow]

The discussion thread, "Is there such thing as a side view dashcam?" took a minor detour into the subject of power banks, heat and charging. I thought it might be worthwhile to repost my comments and quote from Battery University from that thread in the event anyone not following that thread may notice their power bank getting warm or hot during charging.

************************************************************************

"NEVER charge a hot battery!!!

Charging lithium-ions properly shouldn't really cause much heat at all. When I charge battery banks or individual li-ion 18650s they do not even get warm."

Edit: Here is a quote I just came across from Isador Buchmann over at Battery University. - "Lithium-based should always stay cool on charge. Discontinue using the battery and/or charger if the battery heats up on charge."

 

[Deleted member 46308]

@Dashmellow
I have read all of those references, and have my Powerbank working. Nice looking as you described, and really works great. I do have a dumb question that I have been unable to find the answer.

I am interested in wiring this to an existing switch. This would require the Powerbank to be turned on with no power being drawn until the switch is activated. Will this cause an unecessary drain on the battery, and will this be problematic long term for me? Thanks for any input.

 

[Dashmellow]

@Dashmellow
I have read all of those references, and have my Powerbank working. Nice looking as you described, and really works great. I do have a dumb question that I have been unable to find the answer.

I am interested in wiring this to an existing switch. This would require the Powerbank to be turned on with no power being drawn until the switch is activated. Will this cause an unecessary drain on the battery, and will this be problematic long term for me? Thanks for any input.

I don't think this would work the way you have in mind. The power bank will automatically turn itself off within a few seconds when it detects that no power is being drawn from it, so leaving it "turned on with no power being drawn" is not an option.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to leave a power bank in one's car at all times, especially in a warm climate, so that is a consideration. I bring mine inside when I get home.

As long as you avoid charging the power bank at the same time you're running cameras with it, that part should be OK, especially if you manually switch it off from the charging circuit.

Most power banks automatically begin sending current to a device as soon as you plug it in but there seems to be a problem with that if you're running a camera rather than just charging a phone. I've noticed that on the power banks I own, if I don't first press the power button on the bank before plugging in the cameras, they will start up and run just fine but there can be an unpleasant pulsating, buzzing sound in the audio when you go to view the video. I've noticed this especially with the Mobius but it can happen with the SG9665GC as well. Apparently, when you press the "ON" button a circuit is engaged that filters out the ripple frequency that can manifest in a DC power supply. Wikipedia explains this effect as follows, "The ripple frequency and its harmonics are within the audio band and will therefore be audible on equipment such as radio receivers, equipment for playing recordings and professional studio equipment."

I've learned to manually press the power button as a matter of course and it's become a habit when I connect cameras, but the truth is that I haven't tested the PowerAdd to see if this even happens with this power bank. I think I should probably try it and see what happens and you may wish to experiment with it and see what happens too. I can only speak from the experience I've had with the four power banks I actually own. Maybe other brands don't have this audio issue when running cameras automatically as soon as you plug them in.

So, I think its best just to go to the trouble of manually plugging in the cameras to your power bank after you switch it on and am not a fan of hard wiring power banks, even with a switch.

 

[Miika1983]

I just bought Transcend DrivePro520. It has no "dedicated" parking mode, but I'm thinking of powering it with USB battery bank to keep it running for a while in park.

Transcend DrivePro520 specs:
DP520 5V DC IN
The car charger says OUTPUT 4.6-5.25 VDC 1 A

What I'm planning to do is to attach USB battery bank to cigarette lighter socket or USB port on the car to charge the USB battery bank and connect the DrivePro520 to the USB battery bank.

Will any USB battery bank do? Can I choose wrong type of a USB battery bank and cause technical issues/damage to the dashcam?

Am I missing something? Obviously the DrivePro520 without parking mode will keep recording everything that happens, but that is not problem for me.

Thanks for all the answers!

 

[Deleted member 46308]

Welcome to DCT @Miika1983 Some very good information can be found here: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/powerbank-battery-for-a-dashcam.7579/

 

[Dashmellow]

I just bought Transcend DrivePro520. It has no "dedicated" parking mode, but I'm thinking of powering it with USB battery bank to keep it running for a while in park.

Transcend DrivePro520 specs:
DP520 5V DC IN
The car charger says OUTPUT 4.6-5.25 VDC 1 A

What I'm planning to do is to attach USB battery bank to cigarette lighter socket or USB port on the car to charge the USB battery bank and connect the DrivePro520 to the USB battery bank.

Will any USB battery bank do? Can I choose wrong type of a USB battery bank and cause technical issues/damage to the dashcam?

Am I missing something? Obviously the DrivePro520 without parking mode will keep recording everything that happens, but that is not problem for me.

Thanks for all the answers!

It is not wise to charge a power bank while at the same time discharging it. You find more discussion of this in the thread @Gabacho linked to.

 

[SteveJ]

You could try this, assuming your car has an OBD (On Board Diagnostics) socket.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Rocketvapor]

The issue of simultaneous charging and discharging a Li-ion battery pack needs a little clarification
It's a given that long term float or trickle charging of a Li-ion cell will damage it, possibly creating a dangerous cell (or pack of cells).
But, what is going on inside the device with the cells really depends on how it was designed. It is possible to design a battery pack that does not continuously charge the cells while allowing continuous use with an external power source.
Not knowing the internals of a particular power bank, and you run the risk of making your own accident.
I've read most of this thread, and saw the references to laptops and cell phones. These devices will have a battery monitoring circuit that will charge the cell/pack up to a predetermined voltage, typically 4.2 volts per cell, then stop charging until the cell voltage drops to a lower voltage, say 4.05 volts.
If the device you are using can be fully powered by the external source then the Li-ion cells are not providing power, their voltage stays up, and there is no charging while using the device. Unless something breaks of course.
In a laptop situation with removable battery packs (let's stay away from Apple products for now) the 16 volt or 19 volt 'charger' powers the laptop internal DC to DC supplies to run the device and charge (when needed) the battery pack. Charge level indicators can be set up to make the user happy and may not accurately indicate the true charge.
For a power bank, you would have to know the internal circuit configuration to safely charge and drain at the same time. How is the input power converted to output power, and can power flow independent of the charging power. If the input power is converted to charging power and output power is derived from battery power then NO, don't charge and drain at the same time. The battery will be under constant use, likely floating at a low net charging current and slowly self destructing.
Another thing to consider is the initial quality of the Li-ion cells and their age. Old, or poor quality cells will not hold a full charge voltage. They will 'sag' as soon as charging stops, if it ever stops. Again, a bad situation.

An example of simultaneous charging and use would be a device that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket, provides power to various system circuits off of that input power, and has an internal battery that is maintained at a full charge condition. A Dash Cam with an internal Li-ion battery.
The battery management circuit built into the pack allows the battery to supply or receive power only when needed.
A laptop pack, a camera pack, a cell phone pack has that circuit.
Why couldn't a power bank?

Which power routing and control functions are independent and which ones are shared will determine if charge/use can be done safely.

 

[xxgg]

So basically, we are talking about alternative budget way to power a car dash camera in parking mode.
I would assume this? because Cellink B battery pack is way too expensive for what it is and what it does? (I would buy if price is at least half).

So anyways, I was thinking but I can't get it out of my head. So I'll just blur it out and maybe someone can complete my idea or have better idea?

Sure it would be nice to be able to charge a device & have its battery pack recharge at same time. BUT, looking through the Anker's site (I personally prefer & own few battery packs which utilize 18650 cells), their newer models have disabled ability to use input/output at same time.
This is a direct quote from Anker,
"No, we have disabled this feature due to the detrimental effects it has on the lifespan of external batteries."

So my idea isn't great and I can't fully picture it but... for those who do NOT have it hardwired like myself (maybe hardwired too) but want a parking mode or camera On full time can simply unplug and plug in a battery pack, right? But that would be so extremely inconvenient. In my case, I would very likely even forget about doing it. Plus, one would need to recharge the battery pack seperately, even more inconvenience.

So how about slightly simplify it by placing a some sort of toggle switch between power source from car to battery pack to camera? (this is where I can't clearly think out the idea, so you help would be awesome).

I guess what I am trying to think of is...

Position A, (for when car is ON), (voltage cut-off would be required in case one forget to toggle switch)
+dash camera is powered from car,
+recharge battery pack from car,

Position B, (for when car is OFF/Parking Mode)
+dash camera is powered from battery pack,
+stop charge to battery pack.

Ex:
(A) = wire between CarPowerSource to BatteryPack
(B) = wire between CarPowerSource to Camera
(C) = wire between BatteryPack to Camera

So...
Position A (car ON): (A),(B) connected.
(C) disconnected
Position B (car OFF): (A),(B) disconnected.
(C) connected.

This should prevent allowing battery pack to input/output same time (whether or not Anker said feature is disabled, for peace of mind)

So what would be the easiest? simplest? safest? way to wire this up? Or a switch-less idea?

I guess, most important thing for anyone is to remember to switch the toggle each and every time? At least a lot simpler than unplug, pluggin'.
Maybe someone have a idea to automate this process when ignition is ON?OFF? or whatever other creative ways to get same result? Purchaps something that would avoid messing with wires to fuse box as much as posible?

I bet, some of you would say... just pay up and get the CellinkB battery pack. Right?

Anyways, if anyone with better? cleaner? simpler? method can add on to this would be greatly appreciated.

ps, since these battery packs are very affordable, I would personally replace them maybe once every 1 or 2 years. (i think recharge cycle life is around 300?? or so?)

 

[Sabe]

I wonder how this device would work, there is no info available can it give power while charging.

 

[SawMaster]

A Dash Cam with an internal Li-ion battery.

Dascams use LiPo's, not LiIons. There's a good bit of difference between the two with LiPo's being a lot safer.

The battery management circuit built into the pack allows the battery to supply or receive power only when needed.
A laptop pack, a camera pack, a cell phone pack has that circuit.
Why couldn't a power bank?

I'm sure they could but it becomes tougher to do well when the load is both unknown and thus unpredictable. In those other devices the load is well known which makes the designing easier. To do it well with a powerbank would probably double it's cost and people tend to shop on price. I think there would be a limited market for one but maybe not enough to make the effort pay off when standard powerbanks now sell well as-is. Maybe soon someone will become bold enough to try.

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

Dascams use LiPo's, not LiIons. There's a good bit of difference between the two with LiPo's being a lot safer.

I'm sure they could but it becomes tougher to do well when the load is both unknown and thus unpredictable. In those other devices the load is well known which makes the designing easier. To do it well with a powerbank would probably double it's cost and people tend to shop on price. I think there would be a limited market for one but maybe not enough to make the effort pay off when standard powerbanks now sell well as-is. Maybe soon someone will become bold enough to try.

Phil

I agree.

In additional to @SawMaster's comments, laptops and similar lithium battery powered devices very often end up plugged into AC power for long periods while they are being used, so they include circuitry to accommodate charging the cells during discharge. Power banks on the other hand are primarily designed for charging portable devices when no AC source is available. It would be impractical and unnecessary for manufacturers to include such circuitry in power banks since that is not how the vast majority of power bank customers use them. Although a very small percentage of users would like to see pass-through charging circuitry built into them it is highly unlikely that most manufacturers will be doing this any time soon.

I doubt that dash cams will see this either.

 

[Feitelijk]

I've been running my G90 on a 2600mAh powerbank for a while now. It seems to run about one hour, which looks a bit short but then again, thats more than I need.

 

[Rockyrock]

Hello guys, I'm looking for a power bank that no automatically turn itself off when it detects that no power is being drawn for it. I need this because I Wish that the cameras were always active, even in case of parking. Can you suggest me something?
Sorry for my poor English.
Thank you.

 

[Rajagra]

So basically, we are talking about alternative budget way to power a car dash camera in parking mode.
...
So how about slightly simplify it by placing a some sort of toggle switch between power source from car to battery pack to camera? (this is where I can't clearly think out the idea, so you help would be awesome).
...
So what would be the easiest? simplest? safest? way to wire this up? Or a switch-less idea?
...
Maybe someone have a idea to automate this process when ignition is ON?OFF? or whatever other creative ways to get same result? Purchaps something that would avoid messing with wires to fuse box as much as posible?
...
Anyways, if anyone with better? cleaner? simpler? method can add on to this would be greatly appreciated.

I've been toying with the idea of a simple relay and some chopped up USB cables to achieve this effect.
I'm sure someone else MUST have thought of this and tried it, but I haven't seen where.

Excuse the rubbish schematic:


There are two states:
1) The accessory socket is on. This charges the USB battery pack. It also operates the relay, making the dash cam take its power from the lighter/USB adapter.
2) The accessory socket is off. The USB battery pack is not charging. The relay is off. The dashcam takes its power from the USB battery pack (OK since it's not charging!)

The idea needs testing. It might be better if the relay coil is fed from the USB port that charges the battery pack instead. It needs to be confirmed if either of the devices can 'back feed' power from their input, which might have the unwanted effect of latching the relay on when it shouldn't be.

 

[Feitelijk]

What is wrong with PLUG->POWERBANK-> CAM?

When the plug is hot it charges the bank and that in turn powers the cam., when it is not the bank provides the power. No need for relays.

 

[Rajagra]

That would be nice. But the power banks I have disable their output when they are charging.

Sent from my tap-to-talk using Tapatalk

 

[Feitelijk]

That would be nice. But the power banks I have disable their output when they are charging.

ah, I have a stupid one!