Pros and Cons: A119S v2 VS A119 v2

[Nigel]

Interesting. Is this Gitup G3 Duo some new model? I cannot think of such a dashcam being available at the time when I was considering which cam to buy.
Does it have the "Automatic Switch on at External 12V Power ON" and "Automatic Turn Off at External 12V Power OFF" function? Otherwise I cannot use it as a dashcam.
Does it have a supercapacitor instead of a built-in battery? Otherwise - see above - since it will not last long in a car winter.

Yes, it has several options for external power on, including automatic start recording, it also has a setting for power off time, eg you can set it to keep recording for 10 seconds to avoid issues with restarting engines, and to carry on for half an hour to record parking in supermarket car parks on its internal battery.

Currently there is no super capacitor option so maybe it is not suitable for the Australian desert or the north of Canada. In most places the camera will create enough internal heat for it to be able to charge safely in winter. Use in a parked and sealed car in summer is not advised, if conditions are acceptable for humans then it is probably OK. Replacing the battery once per year would be sensible, it only takes 10 seconds, no soldering required unlike normal dashcams. Gitup are looking into a super capacitor replacement for the battery on their F1 action camera, that may turn out to be suitable for use as a 4K dashcam, although a 4K camera is always going to have issues in a parked car with closed windows in the centre of Oz, super capacitor or not!

 

[Dont Knowler]

If Viofo can make the A119 equal or outperform the A119S at night that is a win for everybody.

Or probably vice versa? I cannot think of a solution to make A119 better at night, however IMHO there is an inexpensive and simple solution to make A119S much better at daytime Viofo should really look into: to issue a metal lens holder upgrade for the existing 119S cams, and to further sell A119S with metal holders only. Here I am speaking out of my own experience: of all the known flaws of the A119S model, it is the temperature-related focus drift (caused by the plastic lens holder) I personally really cannot live with.

 

[Nigel]

Or probably vice versa? I cannot think of a solution to make A119 better at night, however IMHO there is an inexpensive and simple solution to make A119S much better at daytime Viofo should really look into: to issue a metal lens holder upgrade for the existing 119S cams, and to further sell A119S with metal holders only. Here I am speaking out of my own experience: of all the known flaws of the A119S model, it is the temperature-related focus drift (caused by the plastic lens holder) I personally really cannot live with.

All metals expand with temperature much more than carbon fibre reinforced plastic, metal is not necessarily the best material, although normally some expansion is needed to counteract the expansion of the glass so zero expansion plastic is also not necessarily the best material either.

 

[SawMaster]

Many cams use plastic lens holders with no focus shift problems, and even this one does not often exhibit the problem. So while the lens holder may have some role to play with this problem there's clearly more to it than the lens holder material alone.

Here I must go on speculation alone as I've never even personally seen an A119 series cam, but I have been reading about the issues. More than any other cam I've read about, these have exhibited more one-sided softness or blur, of which the usual cause is not having the lens and sensor perfectly centered with each other which is the job of the lens holder. When you add to that the focus-shift issues that sometimes occur it would seem that there could be a quality-control problem in manufacturing existing where the lens holder is being mounted. If this is where the problem lies, then the lens holder material could be perfect while still giving less than perfect results. Given the higher-than-usual problems seen in the focusing of this cam it is at least something worth looking very closely at

Phil

 

[Dont Knowler]

All metals expand with temperature much more than carbon fibre reinforced plastic

What you say may be true in theory, however the extent to which the A119S focus tends to drift with temperature in real life is to me a proof that the real-life A119S lens holders are not made of high-tech carbon fiber-reinforced plastic, but of some |censored|. In addition to that, I know that carbon fiber is expensive, so my guess would be that a true carbon fiber-reinforced lens holder would be even more expensive, than a metal one.
P.S. There are btw unsuitable metals with high temperature expansion ratios existent too. My point is, that (even, and not talking about high-tech solutions like real carbon fiber reinforced plastic) a metal lens holder made of some cheap metal with low thermal expansion ratio (like iron, with a ratio of 12) would most probably do the job. While the current plastic A119S lens holder fails to.

 

[Dont Knowler]

Many cams use plastic lens holders with no focus shift problems

Yes, if:
1) they use "hot" sensors in combination with expensive really carbon fiber-reinforced plastic holders, or if
2) they use relatively "cold" sensors with holders made of almost any sort of relatively cheap plastic (e.g. glass-fiber reinforced).
A combination of a "hot" Sony sensor with a cheap plastic holder would give us the focus drift issue we are discussing right now in regard to the A119S.

 

[Dont Knowler]

More than any other cam I've read about, these have exhibited more one-sided softness or blur, of which the usual cause is not having the lens and sensor perfectly centered with each other which is the job of the lens holder

Unfortunately this is a different problem. Which is indeed a shame for the manufacturer to have, but which can be (unlike the focus drift issue) fixed by user by re-focusing the cam, like I had to do with my both cams. The focus drift issue still persists after re-focusing. If you refocus a cold cam, you lose sharpness when it gets hot. If you refocus a hot cam, it does not give you sharpness when it is cold. It is a design issue.

 

[Nigel]

Many cams use plastic lens holders with no focus shift problems, and even this one does not often exhibit the problem. So while the lens holder may have some role to play with this problem there's clearly more to it than the lens holder material alone.

Here I must go on speculation alone as I've never even personally seen an A119 series cam, but I have been reading about the issues. More than any other cam I've read about, these have exhibited more one-sided softness or blur, of which the usual cause is not having the lens and sensor perfectly centered with each other which is the job of the lens holder. When you add to that the focus-shift issues that sometimes occur it would seem that there could be a quality-control problem in manufacturing existing where the lens holder is being mounted. If this is where the problem lies, then the lens holder material could be perfect while still giving less than perfect results. Given the higher-than-usual problems seen in the focusing of this cam it is at least something worth looking very closely at

Phil

My experience with the mini 0906 was that the first 2 lens holders were poorly moulded with moulding marks on the bottom where they are supposed to mate perfectly square with the PCB, they both focused differently on left and right until I took some sandpaper to them. The third lens holder that was sent, clearly made by a different manufacturer, had a perfect bottom face and that one focused perfectly. Moulding marks can happen with both metal and plastic lens holders that are injection moulded, its about the quality of the manufacture, not the material. These were marks that needed a microscope to see them clearly, I guess the manufacturers didn't realise how important they were since it seems normal for dashcams to have focus issues and most people accept the result unless it is really bad!

 

[Dont Knowler]

My experience with the mini 0906 was that the first 2 lens holders were poorly moulded with moulding marks

Interesting experience, and (as a proof of poor manufacturing quality) definitely something to consider for other forum readers when selecting a next dashcam to buy. However I do not think that such molding defects, although affecting focusability, could cause or affect the focus drift issue critical for me in regard to the A119S cam, since those marks are same material and same temperature expansion ratio, as the lens holder itself.

 

[Dont Knowler]

since it seems normal for dashcams to have focus issues

That is a very daring and general conclusion - far too general to be true. My experience with my previous 2 dashcams (which were both DODs, and did have other issues though) shows, that it is absolutely not a must for dashcams to have focus issues - the picture can stay comfortably crisp all the way: technically, if the designer knows his job, it is not a problem, and it does not cost too much to implement. Actually, before I bought my Viofos, I did not even expect modern dashcam manufacturers to tolerate such kind of (un)sharpness issues, since technically they are so easily avoidable e.g. by using proper materials.

 

[Dont Knowler]

most people accept the result unless it is really bad

You are right here: I do consider the Viofo A119S focus drift issue to be "real bad" - bad enough for me to write the many posts here, explaining my point, which I would not have done otherwise.

 

[gse]

Кто сомневается, задайте вопрос Street Guardian (jokiin), почему все его продукты используют только металлический держатель. Я спросил не один раз, но он не отвечает на форум.

Кстати, эта же матрица установлена на StreetGuardian, НО с металлическим держателем.

SG умнее.

 

[Nigel]

Interesting experience, and (as a proof of poor manufacturing quality) definitely something to consider for other forum readers when selecting a next dashcam to buy. However I do not think that such molding defects, although affecting focusability, could cause or affect the focus drift issue critical for me in regard to the A119S cam, since those marks are same material and same temperature expansion ratio, as the lens holder itself.

Actually it can affect the focus drift.

If the lens is perfectly square then it can cope with a bit of drift without looking out of focus but if it is focused a little too close on the left and a little too far on the right resulting in perfection in the middle, any amount of focus drift will cause it to look bad on one side or the other.

If it is not square but close enough that it can be focused then it still needs to be focused a lot more accurately for the whole image to look OK and then it doesn't take much drift to put it out of focus.

You are right here: I do consider the Viofo A119S focus drift issue to be "real bad" - bad enough for me to write the many posts here, explaining my point, which I would not have done otherwise.

I don't know the extent of the problem but I am sure that "real bad" is not a typical experience for that camera!

 

[jokiin]

Кто сомневается, задайте вопрос Street Guardian (jokiin), почему все его продукты используют только металлический держатель. Я спросил не один раз, но он не отвечает на форум.

I didn't see your question, not every model uses metal holder but we do use on some, on some we have used FRP (fibre reinforced plastic), there are a lot of different reasons why you might use one instead of the other, metal holder can also be a problem as it can bring heat to the sensor board and hold it there and the sensor board can flex from the heat also, which is the correct solution depends on the hardware used, what lens, what sensor, the camera design etc, I do like to use metal holder when it's the correct solution, it is not always the case though, there are some circumstance where FRP can be the better choice

 

[gse]

Для 119s это правильное решение для металлического держателя. Нет никакой разницы в вашей плате и плате Viofo, все, что мне нужно, проверено и проверено. К сожалению, не каждый хочет улучшить продукт. О пластике, мне не нужно ничего говорить, единственный вопрос касается металлического держателя. Еще раз, просто ответьте честно.

Цель не является веской причиной в этом, у меня есть еще одна цель, а также нет проблем, потому что есть металлический держатель.

 

[jokiin]

For 119s, this is the right solution for the metal holder. There is no difference in your board and Viofo board, everything that I need is tested and tested. It is unfortunate that not everyone wants to improve the product. About plastic, I do not need to say anything, the only question is about the metal holder. Once again, just answer honestly.

I don't know who their lens supplier is so I'm not sure what they are using, ours will be using full metal assembly, it added a lot of delay as the holder had to be custom made, there was no available model to suit our specific lens

 

[Dont Knowler]

I don't know the extent of the problem but I am sure that "real bad" is not a typical experience for that camera!

Please pardon my laziness - I will not start shooting my own proofs showing the extent of the focus drift I have with my A119Ss, since there are enough proofs already shot by other A119S users available on the net, showing the extent of this problem, also proving that the focus drift issue IS typical for the A119S model.
Just have a look here, for example – the temperature-related unsharpness is what I call «bad enough», and is about of the extent I am experiencing with my both cams.
:
https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...-the-video-is-blurry.30855/page-2#post-363812

 

[Dont Knowler]

there are some circumstance where FRP can be the better choice

This saying is either totally not applicable to the A119S, OR the plastic used in real life for A119S lens holders is not the FRP you are talking about :-(

 

[gse]

my friend, I put three different objects in a metal holder and there are no problem.

 

[jokiin]

This saying is either totally not applicable to the A119S, OR the plastic used in real life for A119S lens holders is not the FRP you are talking about :-(

honestly I don't know what parts they are using, they seem to have a recent batch where there have been some problems reported but also there are many people have no issues with them at all, I'm sure if they have some batch problem they will work it out and improve it