SG9665GC firmware updates and pre release access

[Blackdog]

So it's not a new "feature/bug", it's just more visible. Like I said, other equipment does it, so is it what you previously said about where the unit predicts the satellite is and then finding it's somewhere else, so perhaps a flaw in the way gps is implemented in general, but it doesn't appear to happen on all equipment as they code it out? Apart from that though, in my opinion, if it's only short spikes (less than a second?) then I don't see it as a major problem, as the speeds either side of the spike will make it obvious what the actual speed is.

 

[jokiin]

So it's not a new "feature/bug", it's just more visible. Like I said, other equipment does it, so is it what you previously said about where the unit predicts the satellite is and then finding it's somewhere else, so perhaps a flaw in the way gps is implemented in general, but it doesn't appear to happen on all equipment as they code it out? Apart from that though, in my opinion, if it's only short spikes (less than a second?) then I don't see it as a major problem, as the speeds either side of the spike will make it obvious what the actual speed is.

yes they are only spikes, I'd still prefer to code them out so that they don't show up at all, it is part and parcel of how GPS works so it's just one of those things, at the price it costs us to have access to GPS technology (free) we have little cause to complain

 

[dave798]

so can anyone say when the next STABLE release will be launched?

 

[jokiin]

so can anyone say when the next STABLE release will be launched?

Probably be this month

 

[joss002]

Beta19 with CPL and center weighted AE.
I had a bit of a glitch with my speed display yesterday,but me being sensible driver it was stuck at 30 MPH while I was sat at traffic lights.
I had just left work so the camera had only been on for a couple of minutes.
Looking at all the clip,a minute before,I had lost the GPS signal ,then reads 13 MPH while sat at another set of traffic lights.Not sure if its an issue related to the speed demons on the previous page !! lol, I just put it down to a GPS glitch like I get on my satnav,cycle computer etc.

Video quality is much improved compared to the SG20160125.V2 firmware that the camera came with when buildings,landmarks,roads etc were being lost into a very bleached out sky.
The camera still struggles with the sky but generally roads and buildings are pretty good,not sure how good it can get when even my £400 GoPro has problems going in and out woods in bright conditions.

 

[wozzzzza]

Beta19 with CPL and center weighted AE.
I had a bit of a glitch with my speed display yesterday,but me being sensible driver it was stuck at 30 MPH while I was sat at traffic lights.

shows us the rest of the recording where the smoke starts drifting by the cam.

 

[jokiin]

You should find AE set to average will give the best all around results at the moment, the other two settings are still to be adjusted further

GPS speed will be less accurate when you first get signal or have low signal, that's something we are still fine tuning also

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Dashmellow]

I am not intend to joint your discuss because my english is suck and I have to translate almost everyword but I think I have to have a fair words.
I remember you write you are photographer. So, You tell me: with a very expensive DSRL camera (maybe a thousands dollar), Can we take a large FOV photo which every spot will be perfect in light balance, especially in high contract, dynamic range environment ? which light balance will you use ? spot ? average ? central ? And Taking a picture still a easy, but in here, we have to capture a video of alot of moving objects.
No camera can handle a extremly environment light that. So we have to choose: Sky is importan or street and car is more importan. That's why SG maybe has overexpode in sunny day but in night time, it's wonderfull. Everything has its cost and we cant have it all.

High end DSLR cameras have much more sophisticated (and expensive) DSPs as well as different, more capable, much larger sensors. The exposure methods they employ are vastly more complex than anything we will ever see in modestly priced dashboard cameras. For example, Nikon DSLR cameras have what is widely considered to be the best and most advanced system available which they call Matrix Metering (also referred to as 3D RGB Color Matrix Metering). This metering system gathers information from 1005 red, green, and blue sensors and factors in distance information provided by the lens as well, as it evaluates proper exposure calculation. The meter instantly analyzes a scene’s overall brightness, contrast, hue and other lighting characteristics, comparing what is sees against an onboard database of over 30,000 images for remarkable exposure accuracy, even in the most challenging photographic situations. It doesn't really store 30,000 actual images to compare but it's AE tables are based on data from this huge array of possible variables. The system is so sophisticated that it will adjust its data sampling to different parts of the frame according to the subject rather than sampling from the same points across the frame each time.

Canon DSLRs use a different but similar scheme which they call Evaluative Metering. Evaluative Metering is linked to and concentrated on the area around the active AF point, wherever that point may be within the frame. Light values measured at the active AF point are compared with light values measured from the metering segments across the remaining areas of the scene, and the camera's metering system attempts to provide an accurate exposure based on that comparison. This metering pattern is often more effective when photographing people or individual subjects, but might not be quite as effective when photographing say, a snowy landscape depending on other elements in the scene. Because Evaluative Metering is linked to active AF points, focusing on a different subject may result in a very different exposure — even within the same scene. This exposure scheme is one of the reasons you will often see pro photographers at major sporting events using Canons over Nikons.

Of course, all DSLR cameras will also offer spot metering and center weighted metering which photographers use on an as needed basis.

Matrix metering was originally referred to as Automatic Multi-Pattern metering when it was first introduced in 1983/84 and it has become vastly more sophisticated and complex as micro-processor, sensor technology and lens technology has advanced. This development was a breakthrough, game changing technological advance for photography as it offer the possibility to measure exposure rather than simply measure light intensity which is what traditional light meters do. For example, a standard light meter will attempt to render bright white snow as neutral gray whereas an exposure metering system will attempt to render snow as white while at the same time still rending fine highlight detail.

For anyone who is interested in exploring more about how this concept functions click HERE to view the original Nikon AMP Factory Sales Technical Literature which will explain the basic functions of how the systems works (circa 2000) with many real world photographic examples and comparisons. Of course, today's Matrix Metering and electronically controlled lenses are far superior and more complex but the basic concepts are essentially the same.

Anyway, the bottom line is that no exposure metering technology we will ever likely see in dashboard cameras will ever be able to match the performance of today's high end DSLRs and video cameras.

Also, to address your question about whether an expensive DSLR can always "capture photo which every spot will be perfect in light balance, especially in high contract, dynamic range environment?", the answer no. No camera on earth can always make perfect exposures in every situation. On the other hand today's DSLRs will do a much better job than a dash cam and have a much, much greater chance of capturing a well balanced exposure in a high contrast, wide dynamic range environment because of their sophisticated metering capabilities combined with sensors that inherently offer FAR greater dynamic range than the small, relatively inexpensive sensors we see in dash cams.

 

[kamkar]

I have sen similar speed spikes on NAV units ( Garmin i think )
It was when my friend was using a NAV unit for a speedo as the one in his Dodge dident work, and it was a simmilar senario to dashmellow as this was in the forrest south of Aarhus.
In general i had problems getting my phone to log our walks out there, so it must be poor GPS reception out there.

 

[Dashmellow]

this is a example: the ratio of sky and street is: 3: 7 or 4:6 as I remmeber, not like this.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I would experiment with adjusting the lens higher to see if it might improve the highlight blooming I am still experiencing in certain situations, so that is what you are seeing in my screen shot.

To everyone who has overexpode: just lowered you camera down a bit for reduced light for sky. It will be improve alot.

If I understand your post correctly, it is really the opposite. If you aim the lens higher to capture more bright sky, the camera should decrease its exposure accordingly to compensate. If you lower the lens towards your hood and the pavement it will increase exposure to compensate for the darker objects in its FOV.

 

[Dashmellow]

I open a lot of firmware from a lot of manufactures. They simple copy + paste AE table from nomal camera. That's why with other dashcams, you call install anyway you want.

I guess that's why they call them "generic" dash cams.

 

[Gary D]

beta 20 issue:

It appears that the camera is rebooting itself spontaneously. At first, I thought I might be having power issues, but then I realized that it was ONLY rebooting itself when recording was turned OFF. When recording was on, it was perfectly solid. (Recording takes more power than not recording, right?) After it reboots (or turns on) if I leave it recording, it's all good. If I hit the REC button to turn off recording (which I might have to do twice if the screen is off), it usually reboots (acts as if power was turned off and then turned back on) within a minute.

v2 b20, default settings except as noted:

CARNO set to "B20 TZ UTC"
timezone set to GMT -0
Date format set to "YYYY/MM/DD"
EV set to -1/3
Speed set to OFF (I think that was default anyway)

microSD card is a transcend 128 GB 400x card (genuine - sold/shipped by amazon.)

 

[fubduck]

beta 20 issue:

It appears that the camera is rebooting itself spontaneously. At first, I thought I might be having power issues, but then I realized that it was ONLY rebooting itself when recording was turned OFF. When recording was on, it was perfectly solid. (Recording takes more power than not recording, right?) After it reboots (or turns on) if I leave it recording, it's all good. If I hit the REC button to turn off recording (which I might have to do twice if the screen is off), it usually reboots (acts as if power was turned off and then turned back on) within a minute.

v2 b20, default settings except as noted:

CARNO set to "B20 TZ UTC"
timezone set to GMT -0
Date format set to "YYYY/MM/DD"
EV set to -1/3
Speed set to OFF (I think that was default anyway)

microSD card is a transcend 128 GB 400x card (genuine - sold/shipped by amazon.)

Could it be this setting? It defaults to 1 Minute.

Auto Restart – 1 MIN – setting to automatically restart the DVR if there is no active recording or power is interrupted during boot.

 

[Gary D]

Could it be this setting? It defaults to 1 Minute.

Auto Restart – 1 MIN – setting to automatically restart the DVR if there is no active recording or power is interrupted during boot.

It's possible... I'll verify next time I'm in my car, but I think it was rebooting too quickly. At the time, the time between turning off the recording and the reboot felt somewhat random. Like I said - I'll verify next time I'm in my car (and I'll extend that setting you mentioned before testing again.)

Update: It appears that you're correct, @fubduck. After turning that "feature" off, I don't experience the same issue.

 

[alexp999]

The camera is designed to reboot if not recording. The idea is that if an error causes it to stop recording then it will automatically reboot and resume recording.

 

[arcticfire]

That's a great feature especially when you've got them fitted in a fleet and can't constantly monitor them.

 

[Blackdog]

I have sen similar speed spikes on NAV units ( Garmin i think )
It was when my friend was using a NAV unit for a speedo as the one in his Dodge dident work, and it was a simmilar senario to dashmellow as this was in the forrest south of Aarhus.
In general i had problems getting my phone to log our walks out there, so it must be poor GPS reception out there.

They don't like tall things blocking the sky, ie trees or buildings. I ran the London marathon a few times (4...but you'd never think it considering my current weight and fitness!). My Garmin measured more than the 26.2 miles by a few miles due to inaccuracy when going through tall buildings (Canary Wharf etc). Although some was due to jumping sideways sometimes to avoid people in front who just stop for no reason!

 

[Dashmellow]

I live in heavily forested area alternating with farmland and tree lined roads that run through hilly valleys and modest sized mountains. I have never ever before seen a speed spike manifest on any dash cam or other GPS device until yesterday. I doubt that trees are the cause of this problem. If you have a capable GPS device that obtains a good lock, there shouldn't be a problem in my view. So far this just seems to be a firmware bug.

 

[Blackdog]

Maybe, but all I am saying is that it does happen on other devices, so it is a known GPS "feature".

Can't comment on the GC cos I've only had it a few weeks and it's not in the car at present, but it was said that it has always been there, just not visible.

The GPS chip in the GC is probably different to your other equipment, may not be as sensitive/strong?

I'm not saying these things are the case, I'm just floating some ideas?

 

[Dashmellow]

Maybe, but all I am saying is that it does happen on other devices.

Yes, no doubt that it does. The GC seems to have the best GPS quality and fastest satellite acquirement that I've experienced, so my feeling is that the trees are not the problem in this instance.