SG9665GC firmware updates and pre release access

[jokiin]

Yeah we'll need more sample material for the next round of adjustments, there's still plenty more to do so any footage we can get across a broad range of scenarios is going to help

 

[Gary D]

Yeah we'll need more sample material for the next round of adjustments, there's still plenty more to do so any footage we can get across a broad range of scenarios is going to help

I hope you have a REALLY big hard drive.

For testing purposes, it might be useful if the dashcam dumped a "settings" file to the memory card when it turns on (or starts recording.) This might be more accurate to figure out how the device was configured than relying on (sometimes inaccurate and usually incomplete) human reports.

 

[Feitelijk]

I'm guessing this is already logged and that's why they want the original file.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

This is another reminder, anyone submitting sample videos. Please include a link to the raw .mov file via any file sharing service such as mega.nz Dropbox.com filedropper.com Google drive etc
(Not just YouTube which isn't the original file)

 

[kamkar]

These conditions is allso some of the hardest you can throw at any video camera, all that light and shadov detail is making the proor sillicon work overtime.

And then when youtube get ther cold dear hands on it, it dosent become better thats for sure.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

Tons of tree leaves fluttering around with changing light conditions is always tough for clean compression yeah.

 

[Marc Onrust]

possible to get a copy of the original of this file?

also how long had the camera been off prior to you starting this trip?

when did you set the timezone?

Sure, here's the original file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3QHfpYJSLvBNFg3UlZfcmlXSm8


Camera had been off from approx. 8pm the evening before till 7.15am, so that's 11 hours.

Timezone was set in the house, with GPS disconnected.

 

[Gary D]

A couple of frames contrasting center weighted vs average AE. These really serve no purpose other than to give people an idea how they might look. The center weighted, in theory, should base the exposure level on the area around the center of the frame (which is black asphalt here) while the average tries to take the entire frame into account.

So, again in theory, the center weighted can overexpose or underexpose if the center area is dark or light (respectively.) The idea is that the most important part of the image is near the center, so tries to ensure "perfect" exposure for that. If the center is dark, the entire image is lightened to compensate (and if the center is bright, the entire image is darker.)

First the center weighted:


Followed by average (if you check the timestamps, you'll see that the images are within seconds of each other):


What I'm not understanding is that the "center" AE option appears to be doing odd things with the AE. It's not just shifting the EV up or down based on the brightness at the center of the image. The clouds in the sky are blown out, which suggests that the EV was set positive. However, at the same time, the black dashboard appears DARKER in the center weighted, suggesting that the EV was set negative. Being that both of these can't happen at the same time, obviously, it seems that some kind of non-linear mapping is taking place (which isn't working out as well as probably intended.)

(Actually, based on the extremes in these frames, it's probably more accurate to say that the "average" metering is doing non-linear mapping while the "center" meter is probably more linear. Perhaps if the "center" weighted AE had a mapping similar to "average", center would look better?)

I'm not going to upload the raw .mov files for these at this point. @jokiin, I can make them available if you want, but this seems to be a fairly easily reproducible scenario.

@Pier28 , considering the amount of traffic I'm generating in this thread, do you regret selling me this dashcam yet?

 

[Dashmellow]

The idea is that the most important part of the image is near the center, so tries to ensure "perfect" exposure for that.

I can't yet speak to the functionality of the new Center Weighted exposure option as I've only been using the latest firmware for less than 24 hours but I was struck by your comment that the most important part of the image is the center. Thinking about that concept in the context of having used dash cams for six years now I would say that I don't agree. Often the vital information one needs to capture is over towards the side of the frame. This might be a license plate of a car in the next lane coming towards you or someone cutting you off from one side or another as they enter your lane......or whatever. I think we need an image that is as optimized across the FOV as possible regardless of what technique is used to obtain that.

FWIW, neither of the above images look properly exposed to me. The relevant parts of both images appear under exposed to one degree or another.

 

[Gary D]

... I was struck by your comment that the most important part of the image is the center. Thinking about that concept in the context of having used dash cams for six years now I would say that I don't agree.

I was only making a generic statement on the theoretical purpose of "center weighted AE" as it applies to photo/videography. I wasn't commenting on if it's a good or bad idea for dashcams specifically.

I'd agree with you that a modified "average" AE is probably a better choice. @jokiin also said as much earlier in this thread.

Actually, the more I think about this, I'd like to see something that's a similar to "center weighted", but with the target exposure based on the light levels from 20% down from the top (above 20% is usually sky) to 80% down from the top (below that area is usually hood/dash), including all areas horizontally. That would mean that 60% of the frame, vertically, and 100% of the frame horizontally, is considered "important" and the AE mappings would sacrifice proper exposure outside that area in order to balance it better inside the area. Call it "DCT Info Weighted" (as it's weighted to try and preserve information instead of the entire frame) and advertise it as another reason SG is better than other products (assuming it works out.)

Oh, and it would have to be optional, as some people use their dashcams to capture scenery and would rather NOT have a blown out sky just to preserve detail on "the road."

 

[Marc Onrust]

That's right and we are looking to try Center as well if you really want that sky to stay blue (and don't mind the other parts possibly getting darker)

OK, will give that a try tomorrow and let you know the result.

Well, the weather this morning was totally different from yesterday (very cloudy), so it doesn't make sense to upload a second video. Hopefully this weekend will be better so I can give it a shot.

 

[Dashmellow]

I was only making a generic statement on the theoretical purpose of "center weighted AE" as it applies to photo/videography. I wasn't commenting on if it's a good or bad idea for dashcams specifically.

I'd agree with you that a modified "average" AE is probably a better choice. @jokiin also said as much earlier in this thread.

Actually, the more I think about this, I'd like to see something that's a similar to "center weighted", but with the target exposure based on the light levels from 20% down from the top (above 20% is usually sky) to 80% down from the top (below that area is usually hood/dash), including all areas horizontally. That would mean that 60% of the frame, vertically, and 100% of the frame horizontally, is considered "important" and the AE mappings would sacrifice proper exposure outside that area in order to balance it better inside the area. Call it "DCT Info Weighted" (as it's weighted to try and preserve information instead of the entire frame) and advertise it as another reason SG is better than other products (assuming it works out.)

Oh, and it would have to be optional, as some people use their dashcams to capture scenery and would rather NOT have a blown out sky just to preserve detail on "the road."

I guess I was responding to your statement literally as I would have had no way to know you were speaking about "a theoretical purpose". Interestingly, center weighted metering was originally introduced as an improved method to optimize portraiture so I'm skeptical that it will be a good practice for dash cams. I could certainly see a concept where the exposure could be measured in a band across mid screen similar to what you suggest. Some cameras, depending on the resolutions available to their sensor have a "cinema" frame option that in many ways is ideal for dash cam use as it eliminates much of the sky and hood from the FOV. For example, the mini-0806 has a 2560x1080p (21:9) cinema mode.

 

[kamkar]

I dident use the 21:9 much on the 0806, cant put my finger on what it was with it, maybe my 22" crt screen having a say too.

But yeah we could do without a good part of the top and bottom information in most dashcam footage, i dont have a camera ( okay 6 ) for the off chance of capturing a meteor streaking buy.

 

[jokiin]

Oh, and it would have to be optional, as some people use their dashcams to capture scenery and would rather NOT have a blown out sky just to preserve detail on "the road."

we always look to make any options menu selectable rather than tying you into what we feel is correct, for right now I think the average setting is going to suit most situations the best, the center and low settings are still a work in progress and something I intend to fine tune further but they will take some time to work out, initially I wasn't going to leave these other two options in view but having them menu selectable now is going to make things easier for when we are doing changes to those two in upcoming beta versions

we want to get a stable build out as the next release version and then start working on the fine tuning of this stuff, at the moment we're only about half way through our to do list for this firmware

 

[alexp999]

Perhaps having the option of adding letterbox bars?

Mainly to improve the picture quality by giving it less to compress. So more data is stored in the usable portion of the video.

The OSD can then be within the black bars?

I don't need to see my bonnet or as much sky. I'd rather have less video compression.

 

[jokiin]

Perhaps having the option of adding letterbox bars?

Mainly to improve the picture quality by giving it less to compress. So more data is stored in the usable portion of the video.

The OSD can then be within the black bars?

I don't need to see my bonnet or as much sky. I'd rather have less video compression.

understand the concept but I don't think it's something that is supported in the SDK anyway

keep throwing the ideas out there though, the worst question is an unasked one

 

[jokiin]

updated link on the first page to beta 20

bugfix for the --- ---- being displayed when no GPS signal and speed display is turned off

 

[DT MI]

updated link on the first page to beta 20

bugfix for the --- ---- being displayed when no GPS signal and speed display is turned off

Any idea when there might be something ready for V1 cameras?

 

[jokiin]

Any idea when there might be something ready for V1 cameras?

we've had some bugs that needed sorting, once we're happy that those are sorted and it's stable we'll put it out as a release version and have an updated V1 firmware at the same time, we're still working on firmware though, a release version never means the end of development

 

[flip9]

Looking good so far, the AE responds much better.

Dropped my 200gb card somewhere in the car though...time to buy a new one