which is better, mobius or the new joovuu x?

[Dashmellow]

So you really prefer a device whose images look sharper, look clearer but have in fact lost information through the pre-determined enhancements.
OK then.

It is not my preference. I am simply stating that for better or worse, the original imagery coming from the device is what courts take into consideration as primary evidence. It is irrelevant to the court whether information "might" have been sharper or clearer before submitted regardless of the reasons.

Best Evidence Rule Definition:
When a document is proposed as evidence, the original must be produced.

 

[petepete]

I m sure if a car is parked up with cameras rolling and all it manages to capture of a murder at the side of it is a streetlight in the distance and blackness...

And you enhance and get a perfect view of your neighbour...

the police might be very interested in a quick arrest !

 

[Sunny]

Enhancing not altering. Original footage will be there anyways in addition to the one that's enhanced.
Police specially uses enhancing techniques to get license plates, face recognition etc...
Don't blanket enhancement with altering.

As I replied somewhere, you cannot create a big foot or a Yeti if it's not in the sensor regardless of whether you use VLC or a multi-million dollar lab.
Same camera has different EV settings, ISO settings etc... so digital footage can be enhanced and can be used as evidence or at least to support the evidence because enhancement uses the same or better tech that the original digital device uses to capture/process anyway.
It's digital age folks.
Time to move on here from old vhs era unless you are using a vhs camcorder.

Try finding a bad and underexposed video of Paris terrorists and see if they don't enhance it.
If anyone thinks they won't and won't use it as evidence to arrest and convict, you are in Ice age, and way behind. Time for reality check.

 

[Dashmellow]

I m sure if a car is parked up with cameras rolling and all it manages to capture of a murder at the side of it is a streetlight in the distance and blackness...

And you enhance and get a perfect view of your neighbour...

the police might be very interested in a quick arrest !

There is a difference in standards between what the police refer to as "probable cause" to arrest someone and what the courts require for admissible evidence that can be used to convict someone.

 

[Dashmellow]

Enhancing not altering. Original footage will be there anyways in addition to the one that's enhanced.
Police specially uses enhancing techniques to get license plates, face recognition etc...
Don't blanket enhancement with altering.

As I replied somewhere, you cannot create a big foot or a Yeti if it's not in the sensor regardless of whether you use VLC or a multi-million dollar lab.
Same camera has different EV settings, ISO settings etc... so digital footage can be enhanced and can be used as evidence or at least to support the evidence because enhancement uses the same or better tech that the original digital device uses to capture/process anyway.
It's digital age folks.
Time to move on here from old vhs era unless you are using a vhs camcorder.

Try finding a bad and underexposed video of Paris terrorists and see if they don't enhance it.
If anyone thinks they won't and won't use it as evidence to arrest and convict, you are in Ice age, and way behind. Time for reality check.

Whether image enhancement is used or not, the same laws and evidentiary rules apply in court regardless of whether the original is film, VHS or digital.

This entire argument is besides the point anyway. The question is whether one camera or another is better at capturing the required information in the first place.

Regardless of what techniques and methods are used to enhance an image there is only so much that can be accomplished if the information is not already there in the original file. In the digital age this is referred to as the concept of GIGO - Garbage in Garbage Out, but this has always been the case, regardless of the medium. As dash cam buyers we want a camera that can capture what we need from the get-go.

 

[Rajagra]

The question is whether one camera or another is better at capturing the required information in the first place.

I think petepete and I agree with that, but with emphasis on capturing rather than displaying.
The problem is, do you let the camera with its modest processing power try to adjust brightness, contrast and sharpness in real time or wait until you have unmodified footage on a powerful computer with unlimited time for calculations.

You can of course have the best of both worlds if the camera records footage with minimal processing, but does enhancement during playback.

 

[SawMaster]

My point is that a lesser pic will need more enhancement to attain an equal image compared to a good cam (if it can attain that level at all). You can only enhance what the cam sees. A best-enhanced 720P image isn't going to render as good an image as a best enhanced 1080P with both at optimized cam settings, and yes both are usually enhanced some in the cam already but that is the norm with digital video. If you want better details you start with better: a better lens, a better CMOS, a better processor, and better software- in essence a better cam. Saying a lesser cam gives better details does not make sense at all and will have to be proven to me before I'll accept it.

Give us identical comparison vids with both cams running optimized settings, first as-is and then enhanced, then point out where the lesser cam does better. Vids or pics as proof or it doesn't happen.

Phil

 

[petepete]

My point is that a lesser pic will need more enhancement to attain an equal image compared to a good cam (if it can attain that level at all). You can only enhance what the cam sees. A best-enhanced 720P image isn't going to render as good an image as a best enhanced 1080P with both at optimized cam settings, and yes both are usually enhanced some in the cam already but that is the norm with digital video. If you want better details you start with better: a better lens, a better CMOS, a better processor, and better software- in essence a better cam. Saying a lesser cam gives better details does not make sense at all and will have to be proven to me before I'll accept it.

Give us identical comparison vids with both cams running optimized settings, first as-is and then enhanced, then point out where the lesser cam does better. Vids or pics as proof or it doesn't happen.

Phil

the unenhanced footage is only ever that set by the firmware and all manufacturers use differing settings for their display hence some"appear" better than others if they use the same sensor and chip etc...

(appears they should spend more time getting this right as people obviously believe this defines the quality of footage )

The point we are trying to get across is - if those images are enhanced they give most detail and can then be compared to see which is the better..

In my tests at night comparing a Mobius, A couple of koonlungs, 0806 0805 street storm etc they are all very much the same on detail and image quality..

one camera gave better colour and image quality and surprise surprise that was the GT680w but not suprising with its f1.6 lens.


With capacitor and low "F" lens the new mini might finally have come of age and if it proves reliable might bridge the gap ..

 

[Dashmellow]

I think petepete and I agree with that, but with emphasis on capturing rather than displaying.
The problem is, do you let the camera with its modest processing power try to adjust brightness, contrast and sharpness in real time or wait until you have unmodified footage on a powerful computer with unlimited time for calculations.

You can of course have the best of both worlds if the camera records footage with minimal processing, but does enhancement during playback.

Certainly RAW data would be preferable for some of us who have the skills to work with such files but dash cams are consumer electronics products not professional DSLRs or video cameras and most buyers will want decent performance without having to do image manipulation after the fact. Those of us who discuss and argue the finer points of dash cam design and performance are a tiny sliver of the overall market.

Perhaps someday, someone will produce a sort of "prosumer" dash cam that outputs RAW video files, has a more powerful and capable DSP, higher quality faster optics and most importantly, a larger sensor.

 

[Deleted member 46308]

Certainly RAW data would be preferable for some of us who have the skills to work with such files but dash cams are consumer electronics products not professional DSLRs or video cameras and most buyers will want decent performance without having to do image manipulation after the fact. Those of us who discuss and argue the finer points of dash cam design and performance are a tiny sliver of the overall market.

Perhaps someday, someone will produce a sort of "prosumer" dash cam that outputs RAW video files, has a more powerful and capable DSP, higher quality faster optics and most importantly, a larger sensor.

+1

 

[petepete]

Certainly RAW data would be preferable for some of us who have the skills to work with such files but dash cams are consumer electronics products not professional DSLRs or video cameras and most buyers will want decent performance without having to do image manipulation after the fact. Those of us who discuss and argue the finer points of dash cam design and performance are a tiny sliver of the overall market.

Perhaps someday, someone will produce a sort of "prosumer" dash cam that outputs RAW video files, has a more powerful and capable DSP, higher quality faster optics and most importantly, a larger sensor.

But,

if I m not mistaken, this forum is to offer help and education in giving people the information they need to make a good purchase...

( someday has arrived as the Mobius can be fine tuned with its unique settings to output quality top market matching footage day or night without having to enhance )

 

[Dashmellow]

But,

if I m not mistaken, this forum is to offer help and education in giving people the information they need to make a good purchase...

( someday has arrived as the Mobius can be fine tuned with its unique settings to output quality top market matching footage day or night without having to enhance )

Sounds like you're missing the point of my post. Even most visitors to this site are not interested in doing image manipulation to their footage even if they are seeking advice on what to purchase.

As for the Mobius, while it does offer many exposure and output options, it does not output RAW files, have a more powerful and capable DSP than otherwise commonly available and it does not have a large sensor like what would be required for a high performance dash cam. The "someday" I spoke of has not arrived.

 

[JooVuu]

Is this still going on? Surely with how dedicated you guys are to this another topic would not go amiss here?

 

[Dashmellow]

Is this still going on? Surely with how dedicated you guys are to this another topic would not go amiss here?

Go away, we're trying to have a discussion here.

 

[SawMaster]

I thought we were having an argument, my bad

If it just a discussion I will now leave it alone, being much disappointed in y'all for not trying harder

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

I thought we were having an argument, my bad

If it just a discussion I will now leave it alone, being much disappointed in y'all for not trying harder

Phil

ar·gu·ment
(är′gyə-mənt)n.

1.
a. A discussion in which the parties involved express disagreement with one another; a debate: philosophical arguments over the nature of existence.
b. An angry discussion involving disagreement among the participants; a quarrel: The roommates had an argument about whose turn it was to wash the dishes.
c. Archaic A reason or matter for dispute or contention: "sheath'd their swords for lack of argument" (Shakespeare).

 

[kamkar]

For sure i am not interested in doing enhancements to my footage in post, not even if it was automated in free software provided by the maker of my camera.
I am okay with dash / action cameras that you can get a little more out of by tweaking stuff in the menus, but really they should perform best with default settings.

My hovercraft is full of eels.
?
Do you waaant to come back to my place,,, bouncy bouncy.

I used the Hovercraft part today against some dude trying to get me to sign up for somthing as i walked into a shop, i am pretty sure that was his WTF moment of the day

 

[davidwf]

At the risk of being shot down in flames (please don't) what are the recommended "enhancements" that need to be applied when using VLC
thanks

 

[Street Guardian USA]

what are the recommended "enhancements" that need to be applied when using VLC
thanks

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...h-more-details-from-night-video-footage.8255/

 

[davidwf]

nice one - thanks
I am using a JooVuu X.... it's quite good in brightest sunshine but it struggles in low light and seems quite "noisy / blocky" in daytime...