BlackboxMyCar PowerCell 8 Test & Review PP

[Panzer Platform]

Solar Panel Charging Test

Can the PC8 be charged with a Solar Battery Charger is a question I’ve had for over a year. I just happen to have a 50W solar panel, and MPPT charge controller on hand that was sent to me for test, and review by Allto Solar. The MPPT charge controller is a smart little guy. It can charge Regular Flooded, AGM, and Lithium batteries. The solar panel, and charge controller is capable of delivering a safe & regulated 14.6 Volts @ 3.1 Amps. These figures are very close the the BBMC power inverter for charging the PC8 in the house (14.6 Volts @ 5.0 Amps).
I could not contain my curiosity to see if it could charge the PC8 with Helios particles coming from 8.3 minutes away.

I selected the low 5 Amp charging profile, and hooked up my solar panel with the MPPT charge controller in 100% direct sunlight. The PC8 powered up, and began the BMS (battery management system) “hand shake registration procedure”. After a few seconds of “thinking” the PC8 shut off, and began an endless loop of trying to enter a charge a charge cycle.

It appears I’ve been foiled again by the wits of the PC8’s BMS. It appears my meager 3.1 Amps of solar current does not satisfy the PC8’s minimum charging amperage of 5.0 Amps. Great Scott! I will now attempt to built a terminal on the a clock tower to harness the necessary 1.21 Gigawatts to charge the PC8. Just kidding. Lol

It appears if you want to charge the PC8 with a solar panel you will need a 100 Watt panel to generate the minimum 5.0 Amp requirement to over come the BMS to begin the charging cycle. Que the Price Is Right loosing horn.

This failed attempt at solar charging gives me an idea for my wish list of improvements for the PC8 Gen 2 Model. I would like to see a 3rd charging profile that will allow the use of solar panels from 10 Watts to 100 Watts. A small $20 10 Watt panel could be used to “trickle, or maintain” the PC8’s full charge status in a parking mode situation. 5 Watts to run the dash cam, and an extra 5 watts to keep the PC8 topped up during the day. This would enable the PC8 to have a much longer run time because it will only be discharging by powering the dash cam at night. This might work for folks that want extended parking mode operation like leaving their car in an airport parking lot, or similar.
-Chuck

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[Deleted member 64174]

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[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

BBMC Power Inverter & USB 3.0 Output

In this post I would like to discuss the BBMC Power Inverter & USB 3.0 Output intended for a Mobile Wi-Fi hotspot, or similar.

A recurring question I see in almost every video on YouTube about dash cam battery packs is; “I don’t drive my car that often, how do I charge the battery pack, can I bring it in the house and charge it there?”

This is why BBMC offers an “official” AC/DC Power Inverter with a female CLA for easy plug & play operation. At $50 it sounds a little expensive. A quick search on Amazon, and I found one for $15. One click buy right? Not so fast. After a closer inspection the $15 unit is rated at 12 Volts @ 5 Amps.

The BBMC Power Inverter is rated at 14.6 Volts @ 5 Amps. After my failed attempt at trying to charge the PC8 with a solar battery charger I decided to see if the “lowish” 12 Volts @ 5 Amps would be enough to complete the PC8’s BMS “secret handshake” to begin a charge cycle.

So I connected the PC8 to my Variable Power Supply, and adjusted it to 12.6 Volts @ 5.0 Amps and selected the “LOW” charge profile. The PC8 booted up, thought about it for a few seconds, and said “heck no techno” and began an endless loop just like when I tried the solar charger with an output of 14.6 Volts @ 3.1 Amps. Dag nabbit you done outsmarted me again. So it doesn’t look like the $15 Amazon unit will work. I filmed a 1 minute video of this, and I’ll put a link at the bottom.

So this brings me to the PC8’s USB 3.0 Output intended to power a Mobile Wi-Fi Hotspot, or similar. For the past few years I keep hearing how the world is obsessed with fast charging, or quick charging their smart phone, and there are two new charging protocols called QC 3.0, and PD 3.0, or PDW. I looked into it, and without getting technical basically they mean Quick Charge, or Power Delivery and they use a USB Type-C connector for faster charge times compared to the old USB Type-A Output like on the PC8.

USB Type-C is capable of INPUT and OUTPUT and power up to 100 Watts. So I got a bright idea for the PC8 Gen 2 model. Why don’t they swap the old USB Type-A Output for the new fangled USB Type-C Input / Output. This means customers will no longer need to buy the “official” BBMC Power Inverter, and they can just use their own QC, or PDW chargers they already have for their smartphones, laptops, etc. A quick look at the USB Type-C charger for my very own laptop says it’s capable of 45 Watts. Taking a closer look at the fine print and it says it can do 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V at a max 3 Amps.

 

[Lothar]

Comparing your runtime, it looks like this performs in line within expectations.
Does this have Low-Temp Protection?

The biggest issue for me remains the pricing of these products. $400 is a lot to cough up...but maybe this is what happens when there is only one company (EGEN) making this product under several badges.

 

[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

Comparing your runtime, it looks like this performs in line within expectations.
Does this have Low-Temp Protection?

The biggest issue for me remains the pricing of these products. $400 is a lot to cough up...but maybe this is what happens when there is only one company (EGEN) making this product under several badges.

Right on Lothar,
Thanks for stopping in.

The only listed temperature specification is 14°F - 158°F (-10°C - 70°C).
Your question; “Does this have Low-Temp Protection?”
Maybe @BlackboxMyCar can answer that.

The $400 elephant in the room is the same debate of eating out at a restaurant, or buying groceries, and cooking your own dinner. It all comes down to convenience, and the Pros & Cons of your intended specific application. We’re all capable of picking up a thick Ribeye for the grill, and all the fixins. But sometimes, you don’t want to deal with the labor in food prep, and cleaning up, not to mention the cost of the grill, and the energy / fuel to run it. This analogy is going terribly wrong. Lol

As far as I can tell the PC8 is a 3 in 1 device;
LiFePO4 Battery
Smart & Intelligent Battery Management System
Integrated smartphone Bluetooth APP for monitoring & settings
Another selling point is this thing can be Plug & Play Easy Peasy, or you can install & wire it up as “custom” as you want.
Also being able to utilized a dash cam’s parking mode without hardwiring the dash cam to the vehicle “starter” battery.
Oh yeah, and the whole safety issue of not burning your car down with a Lithium-ion / Lithium-polymer USB Power Bank. lol

So of course $400 is expensive, but depending on your application it can also be a value for what you get. Just like what Dean Martin use to say about Frank; “Always expensive, but always a value”. lol
-Chuck

 

[Panzer Platform]

The cost of these are steep...too steep for me. This is essentially an offline UPS, but without an inverter. The batteries themselves are not that expensive but the board likely is due to certification by HCT and, in this case looks like it may be the same board as the B124 but with the USB added and what ever needs to support the USB. Because folks want Bluetooth the certification was costly on the initial board. There is the circuitry for the charger side, that took design dollars. The customer base wants BT, USB, and an app and those things drive the cost up. Add in the case, assembly, shipping, etc. and the manufacturing price goes up. Now, add the perceived or actual need that people have for parking mode, add in external charger/wiring accessories and the retail price goes up.

A person can make their own battery pack to the specs of this unit for not much money. Depending on quality and quantity of batteries, the retail cost would be probably between 40 and 80 dollars for very good batteries. However, you now need to put in a transfer circuit for when the key is off or on. Would need a case as well. If one can build the circuit then they are good to go.

I think that 270 USD would be a more palatable retail price but I have not seen the BOM. The BBMC price is what it is, they have to justify providing the product. I think though, that most people do not have the capability to make a professional looking unit like the PC8, thus those that have a need will no have problems with the price.

The cost of the PC8 is like the cost of lobster; "Market Price". lol
It will cost whatever the market will bear.

 

[Lothar]

Right on Lothar,
Thanks for stopping in.

The only listed temperature specification is 14°F - 158°F (-10°C - 70°C).
Your question; “Does this have Low-Temp Protection?”
Maybe @BlackboxMyCar can answer that.

The $400 elephant in the room is the same debate of eating out at a restaurant, or buying groceries, and cooking your own dinner. It all comes down to convenience, and the Pros & Cons of your intended specific application. We’re all capable of picking up a thick Ribeye for the grill, and all the fixins. But sometimes, you don’t want to deal with the labor in food prep, and cleaning up, not to mention the cost of the grill, and the energy / fuel to run it. This analogy is going terribly wrong. Lol

As far as I can tell the PC8 is a 3 in 1 device;
LiFePO4 Battery
Smart & Intelligent Battery Management System
Integrated smartphone Bluetooth APP for monitoring & settings
Another selling point is this thing can be Plug & Play Easy Peasy, or you can install & wire it up as “custom” as you want.
Also being able to utilized a dash cam’s parking mode without hardwiring the dash cam to the vehicle “starter” battery.
Oh yeah, and the whole safety issue of not burning your car down with a Lithium-ion / Lithium-polymer USB Power Bank. lol

So of course $400 is expensive, but depending on your application it can also be a value for what you get. Just like what Dean Martin use to say about Frank; “Always expensive, but always a value”. lol
-Chuck

The reason I brought that up is that I've been following a competitive LiFePO4 product (not made by EGEN) for a while now. It has this feature and advertises it.
Would like to know the charging temperature and discharging temperature limits. The website seems to list storage temperature:

Lithium batteries should not be charged below freezing. I'm wondering if there is some built-in protection to ensure that does not happen. There are many times when we get below freezing in the Winter here, and I'm sure that is the case in Canada as well...

Yeah, your analogy went pretty off the mark.
I would never eat a $400 Ribeye at a restaurant. I might be okay with a $250 one however (with some convincing) even though I still think that it is still overpriced too.

 

[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

The reason I brought that up is that I've been following a competitive LiFePO4 product (not made by EGEN) for a while now. It has this feature and advertises it.
Would like to know the charging temperature and discharging temperature limits. The website seems to list storage temperature:
View attachment 62512
Lithium batteries should not be charged below freezing. I'm wondering if there is some built-in protection to ensure that does not happen. There are many times when we get below freezing in the Winter here, and I'm sure that is the case in Canada as well...

Yeah, your analogy went pretty off the mark.
I would never eat a $400 Ribeye at a restaurant. I might be okay with a $250 one however (with some convincing) even though I still think that it is still overpriced too.

Here is where I found the operating temperature spec.

BlackboxMyCar PowerCell 8 Dash Cam Battery Pack

Continuing on the success of the BlackboxMyCar BI-750, the PowerCell 8 is the latest BlackboxMyCar-designed dash cam battery pack that built to deliver the ultimate combination of power, durability and reliability.

www.blackboxmycar.com

 

[Panzer Platform]

Does this have Low-Temp Protection?

Check this comment I found on this video;

 

[Lothar]

If it is charging below freezing temperature then this will reduce effective capacity of the unit and is not good for longevity. Lithium batteries should not be charged below freezing.

There are 2 ways to avoid this:
Either have Low-Temp protection where it does not charge at all below freezing, or have some kind of "self-heating" or "built-in heating" mechanism that will let it charge under freezing conditions.

That comment is not really specific as it cites "operating" temperature...The question is how is it operating under freezing temperature.
If it is operating (discharging) under freezing and also will not recharge, that is okay.
If it is operating (discharging) under freezing and also recharges under freezing, that is NOT okay unless it has some kind of "self-heating" or "built-in heating" mechanism that I mentioned.

 

[Panzer Platform]

If it is charging below freezing temperature then this will reduce effective capacity of the unit and is not good for longevity. Lithium batteries should not be charged below freezing.

There are 2 ways to avoid this:
Either have Low-Temp protection where it does not charge at all below freezing, or have some kind of "self-heating" or "built-in heating" mechanism that will let it charge under freezing conditions.

That comment is not really specific as it cites "operating" temperature...The question is how is it operating under freezing temperature.
If it is operating (discharging) under freezing and also will not recharge, that is okay.
If it is operating (discharging) under freezing and also recharges under freezing, that is NOT okay unless it has some kind of "self-heating" or "built-in heating" mechanism that I mentioned.

I agree with you 100%

 

[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

Cellink NEO Plus “Battery Manager” App

In this post I would like to discuss the Cellink NEO Plus App.
For the most part it works pretty good, and has been very useful in my testing, and use of the PC8. I have not had any issues using it with my iPhone SE 2016, and iPhone SE 2020. However, I have found a few things that need, or should be fixed to improve it. Especially since BlackVue & Thinkware are releasing all new battery packs in the coming weeks that now match the PC8’s 96Wh capacity. So the PC8’s competition is heating up, and it can no longer taut it’s “25% larger capacity” and be king of the hill.

My first nitpick is the internal temperature sensor that reports to the App is Celsius only, and cannot be changed to Fahrenheit. Granted the US is 1% of the global population, the US is 99% of potential customers, and users (don’t check my math on that). Lol
So whoever is responsible for writing a few lines of extra code, and updating the APP firmware please do so.
Also just a testing note, in my garage with ambient temp at 60℉ (15℃) the lowest observed discharging temp of the PC8 has been 62℉ (17℃). And the highest observed charging temp has been 105℉ (41℃).

My second nitpick is the Battery Life Percentage is non functional when a device is only plugged into the USB Output Port. This USB port is intended to power a Mobile Wi-Fi Hotspot, or similar. This just seems like something they forgot. Hopefully this can be fixed with firmware update to either the APP, or the PC8. If not, Hopefully this is fixed in the PC8 Gen 2 Model.

My third nitpick is I wish the Output Voltage / Amperage had higher resolution with more digits. Example: the current readings look like this;
OUTPUT (V/A) 12.6V/0.4A
I would prefer hundredths for Voltage, and thousands for Amperage like this;
OUTPUT (V/A) 12.65V/412mA
This will provide better accuracy for nerds like me. Lol

My fourth nitpick is the Battery Life Percentage is not always accurate in charge, an discharge modes. What I mean by that is when the APP indicates 0% battery life the dash cam often operates for up to 60 minutes, (after 0% was first indicated). Also “FULL CHARGING TIME” (how long it will take to reach 100%) is always inaccurate in two ways. The first way it’s inaccurate is during charging it always indicates it will take 49 Minutes to fully charge to 100% in HIGH, (when it actually takes 59-60 minutes). Same thing for the LOW charge profile. It will always indicate 80 minutes to fully charge to 100%, (when it actually takes 101-102 minutes).

It’s almost like the BMS is working off a pre-programmed “time schedule” instead of sampling the voltage / current of the battery every few seconds. And then when it realizes the battery is not full, and it has more charging to do, then it starts a new time schedule. The reason I say this is because I discovered by accident the use of the “third signal pin” on the XT60 connector that is only present on the CLA charging cable. The Hardwire Cable XT60 connector does not use the “third signal pin”.

The third signal pin on the CLA automatically identifies to the PC8 that the LOW 5 Amp charge protocol should be used because the user has just plugged in the CLA. On the other hand when the Hardwire Cable is plugged in this tells the PC8 that the Hardwire Cable is being used, and it now capable of charging at 9 Amps, or any amperage from 4.5A to 9.0A when adjusted with the APP. This differentiation is identified on the home screen of the APP. When the CLA is used it displays Charging(Cigarjack). When the Hardwire Cable is used, (or any XT60 connector that does not have the third signal pin) it displays Charging. I discovered this when I constructed my homemade 14AWG 1ft charge cable, and used Amass XT60 connectors that do not have the third signal pin.
-Chuck

 

[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

The lack of Fahrenheit values is fairly inexcusable and would likely take a programmer only a few minutes to remedy.

I know right? lol
Btw, how do you know the PC8 has 16 cells, and not 1 giant cell?
Or 8 cells like the name would suggest? lol

 

[Deleted member 64174]

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[Panzer Platform]

I could not find a manual on BBMC for the PC8

Here is the user manual; https://files.helpdocs.io/8zfxbna04v/other/1657315613392/blackbox-my-car-power-cell-user-manual.pdf

I thought about opening up the PC8 when it was delivered, but there are no screws or anything.
I doubt I could get it apart without damaging it.