Battery pack with 12v socket plug in?

[crabbysam]

Is there a good battery pack which will simply plug into a 12v socket and the itself has a 12v female socket for the dash cam's plug to go into?

David,

I recently had the similar query as you my friend after I purchased a BlackVue dashcam. Since I garage my vehicle, I wanted a secondary battery that completely by-passes the vehicle battery when I infrequently go out of town when my car is parked at the airport. Being retired military, I just needed the parking mode aspect very infrequently, So spending good money on something Im not going to use much seemed foolish for my needs.

I looked at a lot of battery packs such as the Blackvue Power Magic.

I scoffed at the $200 price tag, for what it is, that's outrageous. So I went looking in my electrical parts bin and found a 12volt 10amp vehicle portable Jump Pack someone gave me a decade ago, a perfect candidate as it has two cigarette lighter plug ins as well as 5v USB. I fluked the battery and it was .52 volts after charging.

Dismantled it, and low and behold it had a UPC 12v 10amp APC type of battery. I have solar and I have no shortage of UPC batteries. So I put in a fresh battery, removed the jumper cables as they weren't needed. Bolted it to my Murano's Secureit Fast Box and ran the wires to the front, the connector I put in the huge glove box, so I can plug it in when I go out of town, the rest of the time it runs off the primary vehicle battery. I did however by that $15 Power Magic Pro Battery Discharge Prevention Device, just in case. I could have made it myself, but for $15 that saved me some time.

Today I'm going fabricate a small solar trickle charge for the Jump pack so it can be stand alone and not worry about charging it. What's comical is that the $200 Blackvue battery pack is 3amps. This jump pack is almost three times the runtime and it only cost me $20 for the new UPC battery cell and $15 for the discharge devise.

Maybe down the road I'll link the secondary battery to the main battery, but I'll see if I want to go that route after seeing real world power uses for the Blackvue and the batteries' actual use. Strangely, I couldn't easily locate the power draw of my Blackvue unit at Blackvues website, but that's not important, I'll figure it out. The pic below is just the jump pack after I removed the jumper cables and bolted it in the boot. The jump pack was gathering dust for a decade, never a bad thing to repurpose junk to something useful.

PS< I appreciate the wisdom of all you Dashcam people, before I bought my dashcam I did a fair bit of research, a lot of it came from here, so I appreciate your communities wealth of knowledge.

 

[gr1nch]

From the posts made it seems there is a design flaw in the permissible pass-through power banks mentioned.

Perhaps two separate batteries within a power bank with clever circuitry that directed power out (say, to a dashcam) from one internal battery #1, whilst the other battery #2 is charging could work, like this:

So, designed to never permit parasitic load on the charging battery. When #2 is fully charged, then the current routing to the load switches from #1 to #2. Then #1 is now not under load and can be charged, so the charging input current would be switched to it.

Sent from my G3112 using Tapatalk

 

[Dashmellow]

From the posts made it seems there is a design flaw in the permissible pass-through power banks mentioned.

Perhaps two separate batteries within a power bank with clever circuitry that directed power out (say, to a dashcam) from one internal battery #1, whilst the other battery #2 is charging could work, like this:

So, designed to never permit parasitic load on the charging battery. When #2 is fully charged, then the current routing to the load switches from #1 to #2. Then #1 is now not under load and can be charged, so the charging input current would be switched to it.

Sent from my G3112 using Tapatalk

There is no "design flaw".

Power banks of this type were never designed to be charged and discharged simultaneously because that is not their intended usage. The vast majority of power bank buyers use them to charge mobile devices when no MAINS power is otherwise available.

When power bank manufacturers and vendors claim that their products allow pass-through-charging, in virtually every instance it turns out not to be true, not because they have a design "flaw" but because they are not designed with that capability in the first place.

This notion of using lithium-ion power banks to permanently power a dash cam (or an other device) while simultaneously being charged in a motor vehicle is only of interest to a minuscule percentage of power bank buyers and this is the reason we rarely see true "pass-through-charging" implemented in these battery packs, not to mention the additional costs involved. Most manufacturers have little motivation to produce such a product for the small number of people who desire this capability. Pass-through-charging is more commonly of interest to users of smartphones, tablets and laptops and many do indeed have the capability but theses devices have sophisticated battery management circuitry along with specialized firmware and a complete OS to keep tabs on things and as such they cost many hundreds of dollars or in the case of laptops even thousands of dollars more than a typical charger pack.

Despite the fact that some members here at DCT continually seek to rationalize that it is somehow OK to permanently install a standard li-ion power bank in a motor vehicle and keep it charging full time while running their dash cams, it is a VERY bad idea as it will shorten the life of the cells and presents a potentially serious safety hazard.

If you really want a "pass-through-charging" capable power bank get a Zendure. They are among the very few power banks on the market that authentically have this feature and they are priced accordingly. Even a Zendure with "pass-through-charging" capabilities should not be left permanently inside a motor vehicle as lithium-ion batteries of the kind normally shipped in common power banks should not be subjected to the constant vibration, shocks and temperature extremes that regularly occur in such an environment.

 

[DavidUK]

@gr1nch - have a look at this thread: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/uninterruptible-power-supply-using-5v-power-bank.31023/

You can see how folks go to all sorts of lengths to have an automatic switching from car power to battery power BUT others still say it's unwise.

@Dashmellow @jackalopephoto - I followed up the comment here: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...-using-5v-power-bank.31023/page-2#post-379408 about Goal Zero and out of interest emailed them about the Venture 30 unit: http://www.goalzero.com/p/382/venture-30-recharger
Will advise what they say if they reply.

 

[gr1nch]

It surprises me this subject is so emotive for some people. I have a system that works for me. Mostly, for fun, I was proposing a powerbank design type.

Hopefully some folks might find such a discussion useful, as in defining a set of user's needs, then mooting designs to meet that need. That's how a lot of crowd-funded products get off the ground.

On the other hand it seems all agree that using a regular, quality powerbank (as it was designed and intended) to charge a dashcam, when not powered itself, is perfectly safe, within the recommended environmental parameters.

Sent from my G3112 using Tapatalk

 

[Dashmellow]

It surprises me this subject is so emotive for some people. I have a system that works for me. Mostly, for fun, I was proposing a powerbank design type.

Hopefully some folks might find such a discussion useful, as in defining a set of user's needs, then mooting designs to meet that need. That's how a lot of crowd-funded products get off the ground.

On the other hand it seems all agree that using a regular, quality powerbank (as it was designed and intended) to charge a dashcam, when not powered itself, is perfectly safe, within the recommended environmental parameters.

Sent from my G3112 using Tapatalk

The question isn't whether it "works fine" to be charging li-ion batteries at the same time they are being discharged. The question is whether it is a wise thing to be doing. The simple fact is that doing so is highly stressful to very energy dense li-ion battery cells that have a well known and well documented propensity to vent into flames with runaway thermal reactions when abused. As I mentioned above, "some members here at DCT continually seek to rationalize that it is somehow OK to permanently install a standard li-ion power bank in a motor vehicle and keep it charging full time while running their dash cams". I certainly don't expect that to change but I will continue to advocate against it.

Using a power bank "as it was designed and intended" is of course, perfectly fine in a motor vehicle if one engages in good charging practice. Personally, I've been using two 20,000 mAh banks to power four dash cams on a daily basis for several years now. The oldest one is nearly four years old and still going strong, but this is in large part because I bring them inside upon returning home, let them rest for a time and allow them to cool or warm to room temperature depending on the season. Then I charge them at 1 or 2 amps until fully charged.

 

[Mtz]

The first link from this thread is showing me that just one year later, this product is not available anymore. Also on ebay.

When reading forums I like to obtain useful information. From this thread the useful information were that is not good to charge and discharge a power bank at the same time, but also the plugable usb switch solution which seems to be a great idea.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[DavidUK]

Using a power bank "as it was designed and intended" is of course, perfectly fine in a motor vehicle if one engages in good charging practice. Personally, I've been using two 20,000 mAh banks to power four dash cams on a daily basis for several years now. The oldest one is nearly four years old and still going strong, but this is in large part because I bring them inside upon returning home, let them rest for a time and allow them to cool or warm to room temperature depending on the season. Then I charge them at 1 or 2 amps until fully charged.

It seems to be the "unnecessary" acts of plugging/unplugging/carrying a power bank that is distasteful in the world of automation we inhabit. To some, me included when I started my own quest to do this, it goes against some underlying core of perfection to have to "re-wire" the car every time you wish to protect it whilst parked. However, I value my car more than a perfect solution and so I simply gave up the idea.

But then thinking again I just received a CTEK MXS 5.0 for Christmas to keep my battery in good condition so I have to plug it into the 12v socket and switch it on every once in a while. Life goes on...

So @Dashmellow your post has made me think I should just get a 10 - 20,000 mAh power bank, put it in the car, use it on the odd occasion I'm wary of where I have parked, and take it inside to charge it once a fortnight or so.

Now, bearing in mind my A119 has a 12v cigarette plug on the end of the cam power cable, in practical and safety terms which power bank should I buy, and are all USB to female 12v socket converter cables safe? (so I can plug the cam cable into the power bank under the dash).

 

[DavidUK]

The first link from this thread is showing me that just one year later, this product is not available anymore. Also on ebay.

When reading forums I like to obtain useful information. From this thread the useful information were that is not good to charge and discharge a power bank at the same time, but also the plugable usb switch solution which seems to be a great idea.

enjoy,
Mtz

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/nextbase-12v-power-bank-a46tx

But to charge indoors you need a separate charger.

The switch won't be safe as it's still charging the PB when the PB is discharging to the cam, assuming car power to PB stays live for some time after car is off, as with my car (30 mins).
Powered from an "off when car is off" source it's OK, but I cannot hard wire due to car's warranty.

 

[SawMaster]

With almost any other battery technology the normal failure modes entail little immediate danger, but Lithium-Ion batteries and cells can present extreme dangers when they fail, and most people have no understanding of or respect for them and their unique hazards While driving at speed on the highway you don't want to be dealing with showers of white-hot metal, gasses which can kill or maim you in very small amounts, along with a fire you cannot extinguish Handled correctly they are generally safe, but it takes very little abuse to exceed their limits and end up with a large disaster on your hands.

That's why I harp on safety with LiIon's and want everyone to know and understand what they are doing when using them. If you stay with the intended use and factory-built equipment you're probably OK If you want to DIY with them, you'd better learn about them very well first. It only takes one mistake with these to destroy your life

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

It seems to be the "unnecessary" acts of plugging/unplugging/carrying a power bank that is distasteful in the world of automation we inhabit. To some, me included when I started my own quest to do this, it goes against some underlying core of perfection to have to "re-wire" the car every time you wish to protect it whilst parked. However, I value my car more than a perfect solution and so I simply gave up the idea.

But then thinking again I just received a CTEK MXS 5.0 for Christmas to keep my battery in good condition so I have to plug it into the 12v socket and switch it on every once in a while. Life goes on...

So @Dashmellow your post has made me think I should just get a 10 - 20,000 mAh power bank, put it in the car, use it on the odd occasion I'm wary of where I have parked, and take it inside to charge it once a fortnight or so.

Now, bearing in mind my A119 has a 12v cigarette plug on the end of the cam power cable, in practical and safety terms which power bank should I buy, and are all USB to female 12v socket converter cables safe? (so I can plug the cam cable into the power bank under the dash).

I completely understand what you are saying about the “plugging and unplugging” business. When I first began with power banks I did quite a bit of that and it was a bit frustrating and rather annoying so now I take a different approach.

I live in a rural area so it is at least a ten mile drive at a minimum before I get to any location where I am likely to park so I always start out with my cameras plugged into the two 12V ports in my console via dual USB chargers. Then, when I arrive at my first destination of the day I switch over to my two power banks and simply leave them plugged in for the rest of the day, usually until I arrive back home. If I am quite far from home I'll plug the cameras back into the 12V power source for the return trip but it's really not necessary.

Two 20,000 mAh power banks will run four cameras literally all day or more if I wish, so there's no concern with having them run down too far. As I mentioned previously the oldest one I have in use is nearly four years old (in March) and it has plenty of life left in it. Taking care with good charging and maintenance technique has paid off and it's not even a name brand, it's a Chinese generic that isn't even available anymore.

It takes a bit to get used to some minimal plugging and unplugging but it has just become a little daily ritual and I hardly think much about it. The same is true for bringing the banks inside in the evening and charging them and taking the back out the next day. They just go into a tote bag I always use to carry a variety of stuff to and from my vehicle.

Full time parking mode with 360 degree coverage has become vital and something I don't like to be without so a bit of plugging and unplugging seems no big deal to me. If I had to plug and unplug with every stop I make throughout the day I probably wouldn't rely on the power banks and would find a different scheme but this method is a reasonable compromise that works well for me and doesn't take unneccessary risks .

 

[DavidUK]

Correction from my previous post: My A119 has 12v>5v dual USB cigarette converter so no 12v car socket needed.

In 2016 I looked for a LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) power bank, only finding one 6000 mAh unit for £55 which seemed expensive.

This technology appears much safer than Lithium Ion or LiPo construction. Scroll down, here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion

However, today I found a LiFePO4 20,000 mAh unit for under £20 delivered (with Amazon Prime account, not next day): https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B073QQPKVY
At that price I just have to give it a try so have ordered it. I guess I could keep it in the glove box and use the 2nd Viofo 12v>5v USB slot under the dash to keep it charged. Or are LiFePO4 batteries better maintained by full discharge and then full charge rather than constant topping up?

Note this one has a "power remaining" indicator on the end to show how much it has remaining.
Looks good, yes?

I don't intend that it will be discharging to the cam at the same time as it's charging. I'll switch the cam cable from the car to the power bank when needed.
But out of interest do LiFePO4 batteries suffer with premature deterioration and safety issues if they are charged and discharged at the same time, or, as with most Lithium Ion power banks, will this simply not work as only charging OR discharging can occur at any one time?

 

[Dashmellow]

LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are still lithium based batteries and the charging process still involves lithium ions migrating back and forth between the anode and the cathode during the charging and discharging phases. I believe LiFePO4s are less prone to lithium metal plating than lithium-ion or lithium polymer batteries and therefore safer but improper charging will still stress the cells. "Safer" doesn't mean it's OK to throw caution to the wind.

 

[DavidUK]

Regarding the TQKA power bank, as here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B073QQPKVY
I asked the Amazon seller: "Is it possible, and also safe, to charge this at the same time as discharging to a car dash cam?"

Their reply:

"Dear customer,
Greetings from Sunix-Direct and thank you very much for shopping with us.
Really sorry that you can't charge this at the same time as discharging to a car dash cam.
Please feel free to contact us for any further questions.
With best regards,
Sunix-Direct
Judy
Customer Service"

I'm guessing I'd get the same reply regarding all power banks under £20, whatever internals they use.

 

[Rajagra]

Regarding the TQKA power bank, as here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B073QQPKVY...
I'm guessing I'd get the same reply regarding all power banks under £20, whatever internals they use.

Still seems like a bargain if the specs are true.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[DavidUK]

@Dashmellow @jackalopephoto - I followed up the comment here: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...-using-5v-power-bank.31023/page-2#post-379408 about Goal Zero and out of interest emailed them about the Venture 30 unit: http://www.goalzero.com/p/382/venture-30-recharger
Will advise what they say if they reply.

I asked Goal Zero:

"Hi,
I'm looking for a battery pack which can be left connected in my car to power a 5v dash cam whilst itself being charged from the car's 12v socket via a 5v adapter.

This is so that whilst the car is left locked, and its 12v sockets switch off after 10-30 minutes, the dash cam can continue to record whilst parked until the battery pack is depleted.

The circuit would be: Car 12v socket > plug in 5v adapter > Venture 30 > to 5v Dash Cam.

Once the battery pack is depleted over time whilst parked it would be re-charged once the car is driven and charging power to it restored. Current drain for the cam is about 400 mA.

Advice on Dashcamtalk.com is NOT to do this for two reasons:

1/ A battery pack will not charge whilst discharging to the cam at the same time, i.e. whilst driving, so will become depleted as I drive and it powers the cam.
2/ It is unsafe to charge and discharge at the same time.

Are you able to confirm the Venture 30 can:

• Charge at the same time it is discharging about 400 mA, assuming the power source is 1.2A to 2.0A from the car's 12v>5v source?
• Safe to do the above, and why it is safe when others may not be? In other words the tech behind this safety?

Many thanks."

They replied with:

Hi David,

Our Venture 30 can certainly be used for this application. It is completely fine to charge the venture 30 while using it to power your dashcam. Our units have built in charge controllers to prevent it from overcharging. They also have low battery protection built in to prevent damage to the battery when it is drained completely. We assure you, there is no safety concern with using our Venture 30 and your dashcam in the way you have described. Thanks for supporting Goal Zero!

Best,

Brogen Reed

Solution Center Representative
EMAIL BGReed@goalzero.com
OFFICE 888.794.6250
#GetOutStayOut #OfficeAnywhere
GoalZero.com | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter
GOAL ZERO IS AN NRG COMPANY"


I have further asked:

"Hi Brogen,

Thanks for that. Will the Venture 30 actually charge whilst being discharged to the dash cam, or will internal circuitry interrupt the charging process whilst the Venture 30 is being discharged?

In other words, if the cam was continually in use whilst driving, would the Venture 30 eventually become depleted or is it able to accept a higher charge than it outputs, in my case approx. 400mA, assuming an input charge at, say, 1.0A so that it would only become completely discharged once the charge from the car has been disconnected (i.e. the car parked and switched off).

Many thanks."


I found the Venture 30 here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B00TY2HXFU

 

[Dashmellow]

I asked Goal Zero:

"Hi,
I'm looking for a battery pack which can be left connected in my car to power a 5v dash cam whilst itself being charged from the car's 12v socket via a 5v adapter.

This is so that whilst the car is left locked, and its 12v sockets switch off after 10-30 minutes, the dash cam can continue to record whilst parked until the battery pack is depleted.

The circuit would be: Car 12v socket > plug in 5v adapter > Venture 30 > to 5v Dash Cam.

Once the battery pack is depleted over time whilst parked it would be re-charged once the car is driven and charging power to it restored. Current drain for the cam is about 400 mA.

Advice on Dashcamtalk.com is NOT to do this for two reasons:

1/ A battery pack will not charge whilst discharging to the cam at the same time, i.e. whilst driving, so will become depleted as I drive and it powers the cam.
2/ It is unsafe to charge and discharge at the same time.

Are you able to confirm the Venture 30 can:

• Charge at the same time it is discharging about 400 mA, assuming the power source is 1.2A to 2.0A from the car's 12v>5v source?
• Safe to do the above, and why it is safe when others may not be? In other words the tech behind this safety?

Many thanks."

They replied with:

Hi David,

Our Venture 30 can certainly be used for this application. It is completely fine to charge the venture 30 while using it to power your dashcam. Our units have built in charge controllers to prevent it from overcharging. They also have low battery protection built in to prevent damage to the battery when it is drained completely. We assure you, there is no safety concern with using our Venture 30 and your dashcam in the way you have described. Thanks for supporting Goal Zero!

Best,

Brogen Reed

Solution Center Representative
EMAIL BGReed@goalzero.com
OFFICE 888.794.6250
#GetOutStayOut #OfficeAnywhere
GoalZero.com | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter
GOAL ZERO IS AN NRG COMPANY"


I have further asked:

"Hi Brogen,

Thanks for that. Will the Venture 30 actually charge whilst being discharged to the dash cam, or will internal circuitry interrupt the charging process whilst the Venture 30 is being discharged?

In other words, if the cam was continually in use whilst driving, would the Venture 30 eventually become depleted or is it able to accept a higher charge than it outputs, in my case approx. 400mA, assuming an input charge at, say, 1.0A so that it would only become completely discharged once the charge from the car has been disconnected (i.e. the car parked and switched off).

Many thanks."


I found the Venture 30 here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B00TY2HXFU

I get the impression that this fellow who responded to you has no idea what you are talking about, technically speaking as he fails to actually answer your question. The response talks about overcharging protection and low battery protection which happens to be something that ALL power banks have. The issue of "pass-through-charging" is ignored and for some reason you never use the term in your email. I get the impression that the person who responded to you has little technical knowledge but knows how to read a list of features. Unless this company can provide a better, more direct explanation, I don't buy it.

So far, the very few companies that offer actual "pass-through-charging" in their power banks go to the trouble of stating so because they know they are offering a unique feature that is a sales incentive. Zendure is a good example of this. With every power bank they sell that has "pass-through-charging capabilities", they clearly state so, as in the screen grab below.

 

[jokiin]

Unless this company can provide a better, more direct explanation, I don't buy it.

it's in the user manual

Venture 30 allows for pass-through power so you can charge your gear and Venture 30 at the same time

Given the price they sell for you'd expect it should be a decent product

 

[Dashmellow]

it's in the user manual

Venture 30 allows for pass-through power so you can charge your gear and Venture 30 at the same time

Given the price they sell for you'd expect it should be a decent product

Well, OK then!

 

[jokiin]

Well, OK then!

to be honest I only looked it up as I was skeptical also as the reply seemed a bit vague, possibly more to do with lack of knowledge on the behalf of the person replying though