A119 PRO?!?

[Mtz]

In that comparison the A119 was still pointed down maybe 0.3mm but is difficult to align them perfectly using such small screen when FOV is different. I think this very small difference is not affecting the brightness of the image. From that comparison I observed the A119 Pro is more sharp but is too sharp and this sharpness needs to be reduced.
I will test later today a new firmware with sharpness reduced for A119 Pro so I can offer also a night footage as comparison.
I always trying to do very fair comparisons not only between same cameras but also from different manufacturers and the most important for me is to represent the truth. Even I am not a professional regarding this domain, I just served the truth.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[Mtz]

This is a night comparison with A119 using another beta firmware from March 16, 2018.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[TonyM]

This is a night comparison with A119 using another beta firmware from March 16, 2018.

enjoy,
Mtz

I like that the Pro has a whiter white balance than the yellow tint of the A119..

 

[c4rc4m]

Depends on the sensor's size. 50mm is on a full frame sensor, 28mm on APS-C and so forth.

Yes I should have said full frame sensor.

@ Viofo, I believe the current best 2mp sensor from Sony in common usage on security products is the IMX291, although how that compares to other brands or for price point, I wouldn't know. I also couldn't comment on newer 2mp STARVIS as I only have limited knowledge of the use.

The new IMX334 STARVIS seems to offer some big gains over the 2mp sensors (it's 8mp), but being 1/2" it requires a bigger lens and no doubt more processing power for the extra pixels. Probably one for a high end product only.

 

[c4rc4m]

This is a night comparison with A119 using another beta firmware from March 16, 2018.

enjoy,
Mtz

My impression from watching the 1st 60 seconds or so from that video, is the pro not only has a better colour balance but is better in very low light full stop. Straight from the go, the Pro is better. However, as the dashcams enter the more brightly lit area, I felt the tables turned and around 1 minute in, the S had the edge for clarity although not colour balance. Looks like either a bit of tweaking is required, or it could be that the Pro is better in very low light and the S better in just low light.

 

[wasyoingonce2]

Thanks Mtz

Just a general question...I've had to re-install OS & everything on an old XP lappy I use for Astro work and when I cannot access my other computers...had a lot of back surgery lately so cannot sit much...anyway I noticed YT downloads are limited to 720P atm and when I download them and view in VLC I get whats looks like compression artifacts, vertical black compression lines etc.

Anyone give advice on better methods of downloading and viewing...using Firefox & 1 click downloader atm as Videodownload helper now uses converters to download and convert YT videos...and it doesn't work like it used to. Thanks
Brendan

 

[jokiin]

it has been encoded to a different format and compressed further by YouTube, I would expect the artifacts you're seeing are a result of that

 

[Mtz]

Looks like either a bit of tweaking is required, or it could be that one is better in very low light and the other better in low light.

Yes, the firmware still needs tuning. The AR0521 is a new CMOS for Novatek and also have some limitations so Viofo still needs to work with Novatek to improve the image quality.

The new IMX334 STARVIS seems to offer some big gains over the 2mp sensors (it's 8mp), but being 1/2" it requires a bigger lens and no doubt more processing power for the extra pixels. Probably one for a high end product only.

Also in my opinion the IMX334 is the only way to go in this moment if you want a great 4K dashcam ahead any competition right now.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[jokiin]

Also in my opinion the IMX334 is the only way to go in this moment if you want a great 4K dashcam ahead any competition right now.

would do better than a lot of other 4k options, pixels are still 30% smaller than IMX291, really needs to be a physically larger sensor to get bigger pixel size

 

[viofo]

Yes I should have said full frame sensor.

@ Viofo, I believe the current best 2mp sensor from Sony in common usage on security products is the IMX291, although how that compares to other brands or for price point, I wouldn't know. I also couldn't comment on newer 2mp STARVIS as I only have limited knowledge of the use.

The new IMX334 STARVIS seems to offer some big gains over the 2mp sensors (it's 8mp), but being 1/2" it requires a bigger lens and no doubt more processing power for the extra pixels. Probably one for a high end product only.

According to our test, for great night video, the 2MP sensor still is better than more pixel sensor.

IMX334 seems not released yet, don't know the price yet, it is mainly for security camera, not for dash cameras.
Attached is what Sony showed last year in China security camera exhibition.

 

[wasyoingonce2]

it has been encoded to a different format and compressed further by YouTube, I would expect the artifacts you're seeing are a result of that

Thanks...its what I was thinking

Brendan

 

[c4rc4m]

would do better than a lot of other 4k options, pixels are still 30% smaller than IMX291, really needs to be a physically larger sensor to get bigger pixel size

It is larger. the IMX 291 is a 1/2.8 or 1/4.2 depending on which version you get (I think the 1/4.2 is the more usual version). The 334 is 1/1.8.

You have to remember, there's 4 times as many pixels to cram on there.

According to our test, for great night video, the 2MP sensor still is better than more pixel sensor.

IMX334 seems not released yet, don't know the price yet, it is mainly for security camera, not for dash cameras.
Attached is what Sony showed last year in China security camera exhibition.

In security, it appears 2mp is still king. However, the new 4K Dahua "STARVIS" cameras seem to be changing that view, although I don't know of anyone personally who's actually purchased and used one yet.

I presume the 334 is what in the Dahua 4k STARVIS security cameras, could be wrong though if it's not on the market yet, unless Dahua have an exclusive deal. I doubt it would come in at anything other than high end pricing anyway, as Dahua 4K security cameras with it or similar fitted as may be the case, seem to be around $300-400.

 

[jokiin]

It is larger. the IMX 291 is a 1/2.8 or 1/4.2 depending on which version you get (I think the 1/4.2 is the more usual version). The 334 is 1/1.8.

You have to remember, there's 4 times as many pixels to cram on there..

yes I know it's physically larger, it's still not large enough to support larger pixels though, they're still 30% smaller pixels than the IMX291 uses, it needs to be larger still to support larger pixels, other sensors in the range do have what is needed

 

[Mtz]

they're still 30% smaller pixels than the IMX291

OK, but do you know how much smaller are the pixels from IMX317 compared to IMX291? I don't know how to calculate this.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[jokiin]

OK, but do you know how much smaller are the pixels from IMX317 compared to IMX291? I don't know how to calculate this.

enjoy,
Mtz

I don't calculate them, just read them off the data sheet, I don't have data sheet for IMX317 though so I'm not sure what pixel size that model uses

 

[Nigel]

OK, but do you know how much smaller are the pixels from IMX317 compared to IMX291? I don't know how to calculate this.

enjoy,
Mtz

IMX 317 - pixels are 1.62 x 1.62 = 2.6244 µm²
IMX 334 - pixels are 2.0 x 2.0 = 4 µm²
IMX 291 - pixels are 2.9 x 2.9 = 8.41μm²

So the IMX 291 pixels are 3.2 times bigger than the IMX 317, and the IMX344 is in the middle.

Although all three are big enough to see at night with headlights or streetlights, you only need the IMX 291 if all you have is moonlight, or want very low motion blur.

Also, size is not the only difference, some of the new sensors are significantly more sensitive even though not bigger, the 5MP IMX335 looks an interesting one with 4 µm² pixels but appears to be designed for maximum sensitivity, although it is hard to tell from the available information, the spec sheets can be misleading on sensitivity. Also, the IMX317 is very good at very high ISO, while the IMX291 seems to suffer noise and loose detail at high ISO even though it can see in darker conditions, although some of that may be due to differences in the firmware,

 

[Mtz]

Thank you, @Nigel But regarding IMX334 and IMX291, can you calculate? Can you show also in % for all 3 in the same way jokiin showed?

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[jokiin]

But regarding IMX334 and IMX291, can you calculate? Can you show also in % for all 3 in the same way jokiin showed?

IMX334 has 2.0µm pixels, IMX291 has 2.9µm pixels

 

[Nigel]

Thank you, @Nigel But regarding IMX334 and IMX291, can you calculate? Can you show also in % for all 3 in the same way jokiin showed?

enjoy,
Mtz

IMX 291 = 100.0%
IMX 334 = 47.6%
IMX 335 = 47.6%
IMX 317 = 31.2%

(I updated the post above with more information.)

 

[c4rc4m]

Also, size is not the only difference, some of the new sensors are significantly more sensitive even though not bigger, the 5MP IMX335 looks an interesting one with 4 µm² pixels but appears to be designed for maximum sensitivity, ...

Exactly and from the spec sheet, the 334 has exactly the same sensitivity. It's hard to compare to the 291 though, as they've measured them using different units.

EDIT: In the small print it appears there is the is a possibly comparable figure, and it's better than the 291 for the 334.