Adorama has the WR1 for $69+FS but is on backorder.

HelenOster

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OCD Tronic fully supports the one-year warranty on all new VIOFO products sold. (and other brands as well). We provide a No hassle repair or replacement service. Forcing your own customers to get warranty support from China is not very nice to the customer or the factory.
"Forcing"??

We don't hide anything - on our website it's very clear that the products come with a VIOFO Warranty: https://www.adorama.com/vfa119.html. Customers make their purchasing decisions based upon a range of factors.

BTW, As the world’s only full-service destination for photo, video and electronics, Adorama stocks well over 150,000 different product lines; it sounds as though you are suggesting we should handle warranty service for every single item we stock - ie providing a full warranty and repair service for ALL products which are manufactured by Canon, Nikon, Leica, Tamron, Fender, Apple, Dell, Asus, Samsung, Lenovo, Dlink, Swann, Motorola, Fuji, Kodak, Linksys, Agfa, Leupold, Bushnell, Bresser, Schmidt, Celestron........and the hundreds of other manufacturers who products we carry?

Our sales agreement with VIOFO is that they provide the warranty support for Adorama customers; you are apparently implying that VIOFO are not geared up to do this for customers.....
 

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We do NOT offer 30 days warranty. We offer a 30 day returns period. This is not the same thing at all.

sorry, my mistake, 30 day return period

I was only going by what others had posted previously, had never heard of your company before this came up from one of your customers here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/solved-gps-mount-bug.21578/page-3#post-326000 to be honest I was surprised when they posted back later that they had to talk to China for warranty issues https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/solved-gps-mount-bug.21578/page-3#post-326420
 

SawMaster

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Tag-teaming again? How unbecoming :(

So @jokiin tell us what happens with the retailer who performs warranty service; do they have to ship defective products back to China themselves? If so there's going to be a cost involved which will be passed along to the consumer anyway, but this time without the consumer having the option of taking that risk themselves and saving money :eek:

If Adorama is willing to sell to me at a lower price with the stipulation that warranty service after 90 days will be my problem then I am wiling to do business there under those terms :) The manufacturer is not being affected by that if the warrantied products are being returned to them anyway. If the manufacturer is trying to build a good customer image then they should do that by selling products which will not need warranty service, thus making warranty service matters a moot point anyway.

Same as with the purchases I make with the Chinese mega-stores directly, it is my choice as a consumer to do that knowing fully well that I will not be getting the best service possible. I like having that choice. I do not like being forced to pay for other people's problems or not having a choice o_O

Phil
 

jokiin

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So @jokiin tell us what happens with the retailer who performs warranty service; do they have to ship defective products back to China themselves? If so there's going to be a cost involved which will be passed along to the consumer anyway, but this time without the consumer having the option of taking that risk themselves and saving money :eek:

suppliers in China do offer warranty support for their wholesale customers, 12 month warranty is pretty much standard, returns to China are not straightforward at all and require import approvals etc, trying to get them done on an adhoc basis one by one by end users would vary from problematic to impossible, it isn't just about the cost, if you buy directly out of China to save money then I guess you factor this in to your decision, not something I would have thought people would also have to consider when buying locally, I can't say I've heard of any China suppliers that do case by case warranty support for end users for US sellers, not sure how Viofo would manage to do this, new to me

in our market I guess people are lucky in that there are consumer protection laws in place that would never let a reseller offer this type of arrangement anyway, was quite a surprise to learn what a retailer there can do, I think our rules follow the British system for the most part, on all the famous brand stuff mentioned that's no issue as they have local presence with distribution and service centers for their product, can't see any of those brands having to be sent off shore for warranty by the customer, comparing apples and oranges there
 

HelenOster

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suppliers in China do offer warranty support for their wholesale customers, 12 month warranty is pretty much standard, returns to China are not straightforward at all and require import approvals etc, trying to get them done on an adhoc basis one by one by end users would vary from problematic to impossible, it isn't just about the cost, if you buy directly out of China to save money then I guess you factor this in to your decision, not something I would have thought people would also have to consider when buying locally, I can't say I've heard of any China suppliers that do case by case warranty support for end users for US sellers, not sure how Viofo would manage to do this, new to me

in our market I guess people are lucky in that there are consumer protection laws in place that would never let a reseller offer this type of arrangement anyway, was quite a surprise to learn what a retailer there can do, I think our rules follow the British system for the most part, on all the famous brand stuff mentioned that's no issue as they have local presence with distribution and service centers for their product, can't see any of those brands having to be sent off shore for warranty by the customer, comparing apples and oranges there


Interesting......

http://www.sportgps.com.au/viofo-a199-gps-dashcam.html

Dash Cams available on our site come with full 1 year manufacturers guarantee and warranty
 

jokiin

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HelenOster

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From the link you just posted

Authorized Australian Dealers

100% Australian Manufacturer Warranty and Support.

Customers send back to them, not to China, that's the law here so nothing unusual
So I'll check with our Purchasing Department to get the full story and come back here.
 

Whatatay

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Well no. It's avoiding skewed, unreliable internet noise, friend. Basing decisions on such data without at least taking it with a healthy grain of salt is downright foolish. In the case of Adorama, I base my decision to purchase from them on three and half decades of actual positive experience rather than a small biased sampling of people who likely had a single bad experience and wish to publicly vent about it.

When you get lots of 1 star reviews for the same issue, that's telling you there is a problem. If it is a bunch of 1 star reviews for a bunch of different reasons than I would tend to agree with you. When checking reviews the first ones I look at are one star ones. I am looking for a trend or pattern of a repeat issue. If I see too many I know not to buy without waitsing time checking the higher star reviews.
 

Whatatay

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Are you saying you will not be shipping ANY inventory to us at all, at any time in the future? If so, I need to inform our Purchasing Department, and have your products removed from our website asap.
Please email me to clarify: Helen@adorama.com

You go girl!

So how do you like Helen now Viofo? Lol.

Helen, since you will still have stock even if you remove the items from the website, will they be discounted to clear them out?
 
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Whatatay

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OCD Tronic fully supports the one-year warranty on all new VIOFO products sold. (and other brands as well). We provide a No hassle repair or replacement service. Forcing your own customers to get warranty support from China is not very nice to the customer or the factory.

Could at least some of the blame be put on Viofo for not having USA based service centers to provide warranty service regardless of who you buy from? Do you think people have to send their Samsung TV's to South Korea for warranty service?
 
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Dashmellow

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When you get lots of 1 star reviews for the same issue, that's telling you there is a problem. If it is a bunch of 1 star reviews for a bunch of different reasons than I would tend to agree with you. When checking reviews the first ones I look at are one star ones. I am looking for a trend or pattern of a repeat issue. If I see too many I know not to buy without waitsing time checking the higher star reviews.

You should do whatever makes you happy even if it is based on low information and poor data. ;)
 

Whatatay

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Helen, first of all I would like to express my gratitude and thank you for taking the time to come to this forum to give us your side, answer questions, and to clear things up. That alone is very impressive of Adorama. I don't know of many companies that would do that.

a) Reselleratings feedback process does not allow for fake reviews as each one must link to an Adorama order number

b) Short reviews are NOT unusual; post-purchase, all Adorama customers are sent - at random - a feedback form. Currently this may be from Reselleratings, BizRate, Shopper Approved, Deal Crunch, PriceGrabber or Shopping.com. It isn't therefore at all surprising that a satisfied customer will write just a half dozen words.

That's not what I mean by fake reviews. Fake reviews can be from people who bought the product but were offered a discount in exchange for their review, a chance to win something, or a free extended warranty. That happened to me. I purchased a USB cable and the manufacturer contacted me and offered a 70% refund in exchange for my review. Of course I am going to be favorable in my review to get 70% back. This is what I mean by fake reviews. They are biased and not 100% honest.

When you offer something like a free extended warranty, that's when you get the short reviews. They are worthless and done in exchange for something. Very little effort is put into them. I have written lots of reviews but I will only write one if the product or service is really bad or if it is exceptional. Then I will explain in detail why.

Do you offer customers something in exchange for their review?


c) Adorama does NOT purposely oversell. What on earth would be the point of that? It only causes bad feeling from our customers, plus a whole load of additinal work for the Customer Support Teams.

I have come across review after review of customers who said the products were advertised as in stock but as soon as the order is placed the customer receives an email saying the item is backordered. There are so many of these reviews that I would say it is part of Adorams's reputation. As for the point? Maybe to up sell when the customer doesn't want to wait, like a legal form of bait and switch. You're right in that it does cause bad feelings and you can see that from the negative reviews where this has happened. Most of these customers say they won't buy from Adorama again.


d)It is certainly against our policy to ship out used items as new. We ship back returned items to the manufacturer for refurbishment, or sell them as open box or use as in-store demo models
The manufacturers and distributors, who supply to Adorama, and of course, other retailers, do allow the return of equipment as new, because of over-stocks, exchanges etc. This can be a particular issue after the Christmas holiday when we all need to balance out our inventories. Even if we at Adorama are completely thorough when packaging up these items for return, there is no doubt that less scrupulous retailers could well be receiving returns, trusting the customer's explanation that they never opened the box - packaging them up for return to the manufacturer or distributor. These items then form part of the inventory for sending out to other retailers.
We can't inspect the contents of every package received into the warehouse. If the manufacturer doesn't check the equipment before sending it back out, from the customer's perspective it is us who looks bad, even though it may well have not been our fault.
At Adorama we do have liberal return policies and there is no doubt that on occasion this is taken advantage of - although this does not exempt us from more closely checking any and all returns, some retailers don't.
The problem is that we are all relying upon humans to carry out the required procedures at every point in the transaction, which can, and does, result in mistakes at any place along the line.

Fair enough. Against your policy doesn't mean it isn't happening but you provided a very through explaination as to how it can happen so thank you for that.
 

Whatatay

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I can categorically confirm that I am NOT outsourced to the Phillipines!

Okay you are not outsourced to the Phillipines, but do you have any customer service reps or a call center in the Phillipines?

From the reviews I have read, the people who do finally get satisfaction seem to only get it by dealing with you. Your name comes up often as the reason for their problem being resolved. You stated that Adorama ships 10,000 orders per day. That seems like a huge volume of business to only have one customer service rep. Maybe you have a lower tier or level of customer service reps outsourced and when the customer is not satisfied it is escalated to you? Is that the case?

I can also categorically refute that Adorama does NOT cancel orders but still charge credit cards, NOR does Adorama buy "defective used cameras for pennies on the dollar and sell them as new".

I have seen reviews to the contrary about canceled orders still being charged to the credit card but not many, and since mistakes happen or credits can take days to be processed if an item was canceled after it was shipped, I will take what you say as the truth.

As for buying defective used cameras at pennies on the dollar and selling them as new, that was not an accusation and I sincerely apologize if it came across that way. That was simply a brain storming idea in response to another poster saying the $69 price for the WR1 dash cam from Adorama didn't make sense because it was below cost. He had asked what was the point of selling it below cost. Can you answer this? What is the point of selling it below cost?

Adorama Camera has been in business for over 35 years, and we ship around 10,000 orders per day. That would not be the case for a dishonest or disreputable business.

You make a valid point but I can also tell you that many major companies fail to provide warranty service yet still have millions of customers. They have you send a product to them at your expense for warranty service and they simply send it back unrepaired. You send it to them again and they send it back again unrepaired knowing you will soon tire of paying to send it in only to get it back unrepaired. The companies already have your money and have nothing to gain by providing warranty service. They don't care if you tell 100 people about your bad experience and they tell 100 people, because they know they still have millions and millions of other customers who will buy from them. That's why they include cards with their products telling you not to take it back to the retailer where you bought it but to contact the company. That's because the retailer has buying power that the end user doesn't and if the company refuses to credit the retailer for the returned item they risk the loss of many future sales to the retailer. These companies only have to pretend to provide warranty service. Always take your product back to the retailer for an immediate refund or replacement if it is within the return period allowed. Sorry I got off on a tangent to make the point that dishonest companies still can flourish and stay around for along time because there is always someone else to sell to.


However, since it sounds as though you have experienced less than stellar service at some point in the past, rather than go back and forth on this forum, would you like to email me directly: Helen@adorama.com with details of the problem?


Nope, I don't have a pony in this dog show. I am not a customer but appreciate your offer to help. I just found the thread interesting and read many reviews. I see points on both sides and am just trying to get to the bottom of it all. Again, you taking the time to come to this forum is very impressive and a big positive to Adorama. Perhaps I will be a customer one day.
 
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HelenOster

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When you get lots of 1 star reviews for the same issue, that's telling you there is a problem. If it is a bunch of 1 star reviews for a bunch of different reasons than I would tend to agree with you. When checking reviews the first ones I look at are one star ones. I am looking for a trend or pattern of a repeat issue. If I see too many I know not to buy without waitsing time checking the higher star reviews.

What is the frequently-repeated problem(s) you are seeing? (bearing in mind that we fill 10,000 orders per day...)
 

HelenOster

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You go girl!

So how do you like Helen now Viofo? Lol.

Helen, since you will still have stock even if you remove the items from the website, will they be discounted to clear them out?
I actually meant, removing the listings of items if VIOFO are not going to be sending us any stock of those items.
 

HelenOster

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Helen, first of all I would like to express my gratitude and thank you for taking the time to come to this forum to give us your side, answer questions, and to clear things up. That alone is very impressive of Adorama. I don't know of many companies that would do that.

Thank you

Do you offer customers something in exchange for their review?

No, we do not.


I have come across review after review of customers who said the products were advertised as in stock but as soon as the order is placed the customer receives an email saying the item is backordered.

Interesting - which items, specifically, and on which dates?

As for the point? Maybe to up sell when the customer doesn't want to wait, like a legal form of bait and switch.

Except, that we do not do that. It IS bait and switch, it isn't legal or moral, and we don't do it.

You're right in that it does cause bad feelings and you can see that from the negative reviews where this has happened. Most of these customers say they won't buy from Adorama again.

But they do......I've been doing this job for coming up 10 years; I know our customer base and their purchasing patterns. Do you by chance follow 'Slick Deals" Or 'Consumer Affairs'? If I had a $ for every time I've read that phrase.........

For example; Canon gives us an excellent deal on 5,000 photocopiers. So good that it gets posted on Slick Deals and members place multiple orders (6, 7, 8 copiers) because they plan to sell them on eBay and turn a nice profit - and why not? In the 20 minutes after the deal is posted our website goes into meltdown and can't update fast enough. And the guy who gets in there just a bit too late doesn't get his order filled because we simply didn't have 5,001 copiers. We had 5,000. So for sure he will "never buy from Adorama again". Until the next deal is posted, and he does.....
 

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I've personally had good experiences ordering photography and audio recording gear from Adorama and B&H. Good communication and after sales support.

I haven't ordered much lately due to the now awful exchange rate.

That said, be aware who takes care of the warranty returns because sending back to China is an absolute pain in the ass. Shipping costs and turnaround time is a doozy.

The only items i buy with that kind of warranty has to be very cheap in price and treated as a disposable.
 

Whatatay

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"Forcing"??

We don't hide anything - on our website it's very clear that the products come with a VIOFO Warranty: https://www.adorama.com/vfa119.html. Customers make their purchasing decisions based upon a range of factors.

Adorama stocks well over 150,000 different product lines; it sounds as though you are suggesting we should handle warranty service for every single item we stock - ie providing a full warranty and repair service for ALL products which are manufactured by Canon, Nikon, Leica, Tamron, Fender, Apple, Dell, Asus, Samsung, Lenovo, Dlink, Swann, Motorola, Fuji, Kodak, Linksys, Agfa, Leupold, Bushnell, Bresser, Schmidt, Celestron........and the hundreds of other manufacturers who products we carry?

Our sales agreement with VIOFO is that they provide the warranty support for Adorama customers; you are apparently implying that VIOFO are not geared up to do this for customers.....

Helen is 100% right about this. Almost all retailers are like this. You deal with the manufacturer for warranty service. Is it Adorama's fault that VIOFO doesn't have any USA based warranty centers?

So why is it SpyTek and ODC can offer warranty service? It's because of the dirty little secret known as an excessive markup on the price. For example, let's say a camera costs the seller $50 and they sell it for $60 for a 20% profit. If it breaks the customer deals with the manufacture. Now if Spytek or ODC sells that same camera for $100 for a 100% profit the buyer has basically paid for the camera twice. If his camera breaks and ODC or SpyTek sends him a new one under warranty , they still break even. Since every person is not going to need warranty service, SpyTek and ODC's profits will far exceed any losses from the occasional camera they have to replace under warranty.

I am not saying SpyTek and ODC are making 100% profit on their cameras. I have no way of knowing, All I am saying is that they are charging a high enough premium to cover any warranty service they provide. Even if they have to replace one in 5 cameras under warranty, their profits allow them to do so. You are basically paying insurance in case something goes wrong.

Now for some people the higher price is worth it to not have to send it to China where you will pay a good percentage of the cost of the product just to ship it back, not to mention the long wait for shipping both ways at which time you will be without the camera. For others they would rather pay the lower price and risk that they will not need the warranty service so will come out ahead or use the savings from the lower price to buy a newer camera.
 

HelenOster

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Okay you are not outsourced to the Phillipines, but do you have any customer service reps or a call center in the Phillipines?

Yes, we have a call center. And having worked with the previous equivalents who were based in the NYC office a number of years ago - and currently having ongoing responsibility for listening to and rating a selection of calls from the call center every week alongside Senior Managers - I can state without reservation that Adorama customers are getting a much better service from my colleagues in Manila than they ever did previously. The staff are hard-working, determined to please and have an enviable work ethic. I'm proud to call them my colleagues.

From the reviews I have read, the people who do finally get satisfaction seem to only get it by dealing with you. Your name comes up often as the reason for their problem being resolved.

Only because my name is 'out there', because my job is to be active on the forums and catch customers who've somehow slipped through.

You stated that Adorama ships 10,000 orders per day. That seems like a huge volume of business to only have one customer service rep.


We have customer service reps in both Manila and NYC. But maybe we don't need huge numbers of CS reps, because by far the greater percentage of orders are place, filled and shipped without issue!!

Maybe you have a lower tier or level of customer service reps outsourced and when the customer is not satisfied it is escalated to you? Is that the case?

No, it isn't. I'm not 'above' any of the CS reps. My role is quite different

I have seen reviews to the contrary about canceled orders still being charged to the credit card but not many, and since mistakes happen or credits can take days to be processed if an item was canceled after it was shipped

What you have seen are reviews from people alleging that charges have been made by Adorama, which is not the case. With a big ticket purchase a bank hold is put on a card to check that the funds are actually available - and that it isn't a fraudulent transaction. If an order is subsequently canceled by the customer, or because we find ourselves unable to fill it, the bank needs to release the hold. Some banks can take longer to do this than others, and we cannot control that.

Can you answer this? What is the point of selling it below cost?

As far as I know, we don't. The relationship between retailers and suppliers is complex, and not all of our supplier relationships are identical. It isn't the case that we buy for 'X' and sell for 'Y'

You make a valid point but I can also tell you that many major companies fail to provide warranty service yet still have millions of customers. They have you send a product to them at your expense for warranty service and they simply send it back unrepaired. You send it to them again and they send it back again unrepaired knowing you will soon tire of paying to send it in only to get it back unrepaired.

If we are made aware of such a situation, we will step in


Again, you taking the time to come to this forum is very impressive and a big positive to Adorama. Perhaps I will be a customer one day.

Thank you
 

Whatatay

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What is the frequently-repeated problem(s) you are seeing? (bearing in mind that we fill 10,000 orders per day...)

I was speaking in general, not specifically about Adorama, but backordered items seems to be the biggest one.
 
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