COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

[Nigel]

Coronavirus vaccine: Europe’s Inclusive Vaccines Alliance strikes giant agreement with AstraZeneca

France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands have forged an alliance to speed up the production of a vaccine "on European soil" against the new coronavirus, Dutch officials said Wednesday.

The aim of the "Inclusive Vaccine Alliance" was to allow for vaccine production on European soil wherever possible, the department said in a statement issued in The Hague.

"Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands are convinced that a successful result requires a joint strategy and investments," it said.

Dutch, French, Germans and Italians form virus vaccine alliance

France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands have forged an alliance to speed up the production of a vaccine "on European soil" against the new coronavirus, Dutch officials said Wednesday.

medicalxpress.com

Not sure if "on European soil" meant in the EU, but the Oxford Vaccine they have signed up for is now made in UK, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland - all just over the sea/border! What does that say about the EU?

 

[Nigel]

We make our own, have to tie in too with the brainwash stimulants used on the Danes for decades, otherwise we all end up as a bunch of drooling bodies flopping around on the floor.

Looks like Denmark might be included since you are in the EU, with Germany paying the bills to ensure its borders are safe to be open:

“This will ensure that hundreds of millions of people in Europe will have access to this vaccine, of course if it works and we will know that by the end of summer,” AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot told journalists. He said he has “good hope” that it will work, based on initial data.

China, Brazil, Japan and Russia have also expressed interest, he said.

The vaccines are for all EU member states. The four nations that agreed the deal will pay for the total amount, which has not been disclosed, and the scheme allows other countries to join it under the same conditions, a source from the Italian health ministry said.

 

[SawMaster]

"Production underway for 2 billion doses" and "if it works,, and we will know that by the end of summer" because someone has "good hope" that it will work.

I can't be the only one seeing a naked Emperor This is more like "scientifically ' betting on a horse at a racetrack than ensuring people aren't going to get a disease. There are going to be 2Bn people "beta testing" a drug where there is at best only a partial certainty of success and safety.

Are they going to be held responsible if it doesn't work?
Are they going to be held responsible for side-effect damages?
Are they going to refund the money if that happens?

Of course we know that answer already. If Mr. Soroit thinks this will work, why doesn't he dose himself, then have all of them spend a week in close contact with people who have this disease to see if he's right? Oh but that wouldn't "be humane" would it? And of course he's too important to be risked like that Someone should remind him that Elisha Otis personally and very publicly tested his 'safety elevator' time and time again before asking anyone else to use it, so the precedent and proper procedure is there for things where numerous lives are going to be placed at risk based on your idea of something you think will work. It's called taking personal responsibility for your decisions and testing them yourself before placing others at risk. It should be required here because it's so easily done and because the public's lives are relying on him being right. Elevator ropes do break even though they are not supposed to


The EU might find themselves with their money spent on something which doesn't work and unable to rectify that while AstraZenca just says "Oh, we're sorry. Give us more money we can try again! There is a reason for proper clinical trials being held before a drug goes into widespread use I truly hope it works as expected, but it seems that the EU is blinding themselves to any other possibility and making no allowance for things going wrong. That could be more disastrous than the disease itself.

Phil

 

[Nigel]

There is a reason for proper clinical trials being held before a drug goes into widespread use

It is not going to go into widespread use without the normal proper clinical trials!

They are hoping to complete those trials before September.

I can't imagine that the EU is going to pay for manufacture if it doesn't work, but they are paying for the manufacturing process to be set up, an investment that is considered worthwhile in order to save time and thus save lives, and other things. USA does appear to have already paid almost in full, but I think you have paid to have the vaccine manufactured before testing is complete, in order to save even more time and lives. After all, if the virus is still spreading exponentially in the USA by the time of the November election then Trump is in big trouble! On the other hand, if the virus has just been wiped out with zero new cases on November 1st...

There are going to be 2Bn people "beta testing" a drug where there is at best only a partial certainty of success and safety.

No, even if your dose is manufactured before testing is complete, you are not going to receive it if testing does not prove success and safety. The 2Bn people are not going to be testing the vaccine, only testing the results of the testing, something that always happens, and occasionally finds problems. Since this vaccine is based on another previously tested and with very small changes, there is not much risk, but I'm sure the EU will be very happy to see the USA go with mass vaccination first in order to reach the November 3rd wipeout deadline. I doubt that UK will vaccinate everyone immediately even though we will be first to be able to do so, after all we are not expecting to have any virus left by September, we have enough natural immunity to keep it eradicated without having to risk brand new vaccines! With cases still increasing in much of USA, it seems certain you will still have a lot of cases in September, and if Trump is to reach his deadline he may have to try and pass a law to force everybody to take the vaccine! The predictions suggest that SC will have more deaths from covid19- in October than now!

If it was actually a drug, as you suggest, then it would be far more worrying since then it would stay in your body potentially causing continuous harm, but since it is a vaccine that just teaches your immune system how to deal with covid-19 and then gets destroyed very quickly, there is no significant risk of it causing continuous damage.

 

[kamkar]

EU is going to pay for manufacture if it doesn't work

I would sincerely hope that's one of the reasons for brexit, cuz EU have done that before and will do it again.
Just like our individual governments have over the years, i am just looking for the next IT project the Danish government will blow 0.5 - 1 billion on.
Or the next series of complex laws that will let American and other hedge funds steal a XX billions of the Danish tax payers money, and walk away from it scot free.
That tunnel to Germany i am also this close to be willing to bet that it will go over budget by at least 1/3 of the price.

The Post

The Copenhagen Post – Danish news in English

cphpost.dk

 

[Nigel]

that's one of the reasons for brexit

If it wasn't for Brexit, we would still have to be following EU regulations, and I doubt we would be starting manufacture of 2 billion vaccine doses!

Following Brexit, we can make and change the regulations as we like, and more importantly as fast as we like
Our partners for the vaccine are circling the EU but not inside it: UK, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, there must be a reason for that.

For example, EU does not allow companies to receive government assistance... state aid rules.
Sometimes it is desirable to pour government funding into companies, and everyone can benefit from the results. I think that includes rapid vaccine development!

 

[kamkar]

Well there is talks here of the government buying into large important job creating local companies if need be, but this of course also with a wide range of IF
Like the wind turbine sector ASO
But so far those companies all seem to be doing well, so i assume its just a exercise on feel good, and maybe some voter fishing though we have 3 years to the next election.

 

[Nigel]

I see that Trump is going to hold a suicide rally on Saturday:

Trump rally called ‘dangerous move’ in age of coronavirus

President Donald Trump will head to Tulsa, Oklahoma — a state that has seen relatively few COVID-19 cases.

www.pennlive.com

Dr. Ashish Jha, director of Harvard’s Global Health Institute, called the upcoming Trump rally “an extraordinarily dangerous move for the people participating and the people who may know them and love them and see them afterward."

Killing off your supporters seems a good way to avoid winning!

19,000 people tightly packed indoors and all shouting support is sure to kill quite a few.

 

[SawMaster]

Shhhhhh- don't tell anybody

I honestly couldn't imagine any better 'poetic justice' and proof that karma is real than for these people to get what they're truly asking for and in quantity. As far as I can see, the only downside would be that they're going to take it home to their kids and to other people around them who may be probably are saner and smarter.

This message brought to you by a true Conservative, not someone or a political party who has co-opted the word and twisted it into meaning something it doesn't
Phil

 

[Nigel]

Shhhhhh- don't tell anybody

Don't worry, they are not listening, and even the ones that are listening believe that cloth masks will save them.
I have zero faith in masks in a situation like that, even profesional ones, unless you take your own air supply!

It is inconceivable that they will not have some infectious people there, and if one of them is shouting support, and nobody washes their hands because there are no facilities, that is 1000 infections.

Why on earth do they not hold it outside?

 

[kamkar]

In this situation, if your hobbies was latex fetish and scuba diving, you would be good combining those outfits, you be safe under your rubber skin and you will be breathing your own "clean" air.
But going out on town,,,,, you would probably freak out people.

 

[Dashmellow]

Shhhhhh- don't tell anybody

They've apparently already been informed of the risk by the campaign committee. If you want to attend Trump's campaign rally you'll be required to sign a release form acknowledging their disclaimer.

 

[Nigel]

I noticed that they don't include death along with illness and injury!

 

[SawMaster]

Why on earth do they not hold it outside?

Oklahoma weather this time of year is somewhat to extremely unpredictable, and a morning forecast of a partially cloudy day with a moderate chance of rain can manifest itself as severe thunderstorms with tornadoes by the afternoon/evening hours Only a morning forecast of absolutely no clouds and absolutely no rain that day should be believed there this time of year, and even that is best viewed as being highly suspect

Nobody is going to wear a mask there. Anyone who showed up wearing one would be decried as an "antifa provocateur" and would likely die in the process of being kicked and dragged through the crowds and out the doors with nobody admitting to seeing anything about it afterward. If they allowed such a person inside in the first place, which they will not willingly do That is their concept of "Freedom" where you're free only to be like and act like them. Nobody else need apply, you're already not wanted or welcome People who do not know these kinds more than casually cannot grasp what they're actually like. Some of these folks are highly intelligent, well read, kind to their neighbors, dogs, and stray cats but horribly misled and mistaken in certain things which just happen to be very important to one's character and integrity. They support each other in those mistakes and as you've noted will not listen to anyone who dissents, even from within. Same as with road-rage drivers the best approach is to back off and let them go find their self-destruction elsewhere, which they will always do

Can't wait to see what the virus does to these people, only wish there were a way to confine it to only them. It IS going to happen to some degree. And having people sign a waiver doesn't automatically protect the organizers of this event. SCOTUS has held that there is a point where responsibility must be accepted even for known dangers which are clearly explained because nobody has the right to knowingly allow, condone, or assist in the doing of something so dangerous that innocent and unconnected persons are likely to be harmed by it. Once that 'veil gets pierced' legally, no waivers or corporate protections in the law apply anymore. It's every Lawyer's dream to perform this pinnacle-climb of their profession, and defendants losing cases because of this point come to their well-deserved ruin as often as not. Regardless the results will be interesting because we live in some of the most interesting times there have ever been.

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

Perfect time and place for a crowded political campaign rally! How Trumpian!

Tulsa World: COVID-19: Infections peak again for Tulsa County, Oklahoma with more than 200 new cases reported

"State health officials on Friday reported 222 new cases of COVID-19, marking a new peak in daily increases for both the state and Tulsa County".
"Social distancing means staying out of group or congregate settings, avoiding mass gatherings and maintaining a distance of at least 6 feet from others."

Well, since the Trump campaign will have a detailed record of every single person who attends the rally, the good news is the contact tracers will know exactly where to go when they’re trying to run down the identities of all the plaguebearers.

 

[Dashmellow]

Black and Brown Lives Matter?....well, at least until the campaign rally is over.

 

[Nigel]

Can't wait to see what the virus does to these people, only wish there were a way to confine it to only them. It IS going to happen to some degree.

Should be around 100 infectious people there, get them to shout support from the top rows of seats and the virus will shower down onto those below, with Trump in the very centre:

So the result will depend on the ventilation system, anything from 1000 to 5000 infections is likely, but even that will be hard to see in the figures at first since presumably most people will not get tested afterwards even if they have symptoms, it will will be a few weeks and a few generations of virus spread before the big numbers arrive, and then Trump will just point out that the numbers were rising even before he visited and that the governors are doing a poor job.

The expensive seats seem to be in the worst place!

 

[kamkar]

stuff gotten in on a nursing home here, they found 1 first, but now that number are 20.

Daum that hockey stadium sure do look a lot different ( larger ) than the Danish ones.
The one in my birth town.

 

[Nigel]

stuff gotten in on a nursing home here, they found 1 first, but now that number are 20.

That happened many times here, very bad news, accounts for a substantial number of our deaths. They should only use staff that have passed an immunity test, but that may still be difficult since there won't be enough. Otherwise the staff have to live in quarantine in the home.

 

[kamkar]

yes that rise in numbers are in 24 hours, when they found 1 they of course tested everyone there.
No saying if it is just staff or elderly or a mix of the two.