COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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Yeah i dont like it either, seem like one of those "WHY" things in the world.
I don't object to farming, but in the case of mink, all mink farms seem to be keep the mink in terrible conditions, otherwise it wouldn't be profitable, and mink are not creatures that like being stuck in tiny cages anyway, they are hunters.
 
Sweden are mighty pissed, not only for us Danes not opening our borders to them, but also thru it all Danes have been able to go to Sweden due to their lax approach, and visiting Danes apparently dont give a damn about the Swedish rules and etiquette regarding the virus.
So on this i am totally with out Swedish friends, they should fine the hell out of those people and send them home, maybe with a ban on visiting Sweden for X months.
"The country has taken a lighter-than-most approach to social distancing for COVID-19, relying on people to monitor themselves for symptoms, stay home when ill, practice good handwashing, and avoid crowds. You see very few masks on people's faces in current photos from Stockholm and other Swedish cities."

Not much different to here, what are the Danes doing wrong?
 
Nothing. They are just getting even with us.
Dont see any face masks here either.

"The Swedish government is easing restrictions on travel to ten countries from 30 June. Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde said this at a press conference on Wednesday.

However, Denmark, which has not opened the border for Swedes, is also not among the ten countries.
Also see
The infection is reported out of control in part of Sweden
The current travel guide from the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs to avoid unnecessary travel to the ten countries will be repealed from 30 June.
- There has been a positive development in Europe, says Ann Linde.
She says the decision is not based on considerations about the risk of infection spread.
- It is based on the risk of being quarantined or of beaches because there are no planes, trains or boats so you can get home, says Linde.
The countries that Swedes will not be advised against traveling to in the future are Belgium, France, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Croatia, Luxembourg, Portugal, Switzerland and Spain."
 
Here we have 39 in hospital - 6 in ICU - 4 of them on ventilator - 598 dead in total - 12256 infected, and that's also about the number of people tested in the past 24 hours.
677.000 have been tested in total so far.
Unsure what the Swedish numbers are, but clearly they are scaring the people in power here.

60.000 full time jobs have evaporated during corona, but jobs have also been created so its not all loose - loose
 
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Sweden are 5041 deaths and 54562 infected, thats something all together different than 598 and 12256 in Denmark, i can relate to that worrying some people, even if the Swedish LOG curve are as flat as the Danish or British one.
 
Sweden are 5041 deaths and 54562 infected, thats something all together different than 598 and 12256 in Denmark, i can relate to that worrying some people, even if the Swedish LOG curve are as flat as the Danish or British one.
Over the whole epidemic, Sweden has 5 deaths for every one in Denmark (corrected for population), and they now have more immunity than Denmark so it should be easier to control any outbreaks. However they are currently on 19 deaths for every one in Denmark.

At one time, UK had a few more deaths than Sweden (corrected for population), but they are currently well ahead of us, so whichever country you compare them with, it seems they are doing something wrong. Being a not very densely populated country they should be finding it easy.
 
"The country has taken a lighter-than-most approach to social distancing for COVID-19, relying on people to monitor themselves for symptoms, stay home when ill, practice good handwashing, and avoid crowds. You see very few masks on people's faces in current photos from Stockholm and other Swedish cities."

Not much different to here, what are the Danes doing wrong?

That is the same as what's being done here in SC- except the people aren't following the recommendations any better than they follow speed limits on the roads :( Asking someone to do something they might not want to do isn't going to get their compliance. They must be told what to do by means of laws which must be enforced well or you end up like here with everyone speeding because they know there's little chance of getting a ticket :eek:

The big city's county near me has seen a skyrocket-like spike in the last 3 weeks, which coincides perfectly with the opening of businesses again. :cry: It seems to be over low public mask use and poor social distancing as restaurants, bars, etc. still have seating sections semi-closed to the 6ft (2m) rule and most retail and service employees you see now will be wearing a mask, with cashiers and clerks behind a clear plastic 'sneeze panel' (y)

The big problem now is that with US Law Enforcement walking on tip-toes to avoid making their own situation worse, there can be no anti-virus enforcement measures begun or all heck will break loose, but it would have probably worked had it been started when it should have been done- months ago :mad: As best I can tell, there have been no spikes yet due to protest crowds, but one church in Oregon which has not followed protection guidelines has been found to be the source of hundreds of cases (probably with hundreds more coming) being the main cause of the spike now being seen in that State :cautious:

Phil
 
The curfew ended here a few days ago. You still have to carry a mask and wear it to enter most big stores or shopping areas. Temp check also. Thailand has some sort of app you are supposed to use that logs you in and out of public areas. The idea is if some infection occurs, they can contact people who were in that area.
half of thais don't bother to sign in/out, or scan the qr code on the phone when entering or leaving, so I don't feel badly about not doing it either. ( usually no info or help in english)

:rolleyes:
Alcohol is being sold again in restaurants, but not bars. Some restaurants who were still open during the shutdown continued to sell alcohol, but disguised in various manners. I have no direct knowledge of beer being served in coffee cups, or beer bottles being shielded by empty pringles containers.
 
Asking someone to do something they might not want to do isn't going to get their compliance. They must be told what to do by means of laws which must be enforced well

Phil
My perspective is a bit different. It may be small town verses big city. Many people when asked went along with the requests. Once people were ordered they rebelled. Seeing the hypocricy of allowing big protests for BLM declaring them safe while being told Trump rallies are dangerous and will create viral epidemics only makes people angry. Either the virus is dangerous for everyone or it is not. The approach taken looks to many like it is about controlling people instead of controlling a virus. If the virus is so dangerous why is the governor doing a job of passing laws when that job is exclusively legislative?
 
Seeing the hypocricy of allowing big protests for BLM declaring them safe while being told Trump rallies are dangerous and will create viral epidemics only makes people angry. Either the virus is dangerous for everyone or it is not.
The BLM protests where all outdoors with people maintaining some distance whenever possible and the biggest ones were in places with significant immunity. Result - little risk.

Trump's rally is indoors, in a space with ventilation designed to keep the ice rink in perfect condition and with very tightly packed seating which is banked so that any cough showers down on many people in front, and in a state with minimal immunity and apparently on its way up the epidemic curve. There is no reason why it couldn't be postponed a few months and held outdoors, but that is not what is happening; it is certain that people will die as a result of the rally, many people indirectly as the virus is passed on to people who didn't attend, including those that were sensible and stayed away to be safe.

You need to be seriously worried when your president takes control of the media, something the USA has long campaigned against in the rest of the world but now it is starting to happen at home. Expect other publishers that Trump can't get his hands on to start being imprisoned for publishing "fake news" as we get closer to election day:

He is already taking court action against Bolton:

The big city's county near me has seen a skyrocket-like spike in the last 3 weeks, which coincides perfectly with the opening of businesses again. :cry: It seems to be over low public mask use and poor social distancing as restaurants, bars, etc. still have seating sections semi-closed to the 6ft (2m) rule and most retail and service employees you see now will be wearing a mask, with cashiers and clerks behind a clear plastic 'sneeze panel' (y)
The problem is that you went into lockdown too early and so have come out again with little immunity, your lockdown has gained you almost nothing. In Australia they have kept the lockdown until there is no virus left, so they are safe other than from external sources; in UK we built up enough immunity during lockdown to make future outbreaks unlikely and easy to wipe out, we don't need to worry even about external sources; your middle ground of leaving lockdown early with little immunity and poor testing/contact tracing is not going to work well! You do have 13 states with reasonable immunity, the rest still have a problem, plus there is Hawaii and Alaska which are isolated enough to not have problems as long as they never open their borders.
 
Hawaii is seeing unemployment levels equal to the Great Depression. They can't really isolate well as much of their economy is based on tourism, perhaps most of it. We're seeing similar with our coastal resort cities. One bunch of out-of-staters apparently caught Covid-19 at our Myrtle Beach, probably from a restaurant :( Kind of makes you want to re-think what your economy is based on and what effects it will have on you, which I see as a good thing- one should never stop thinking ;)

I don't think we entered lock-down too early- we just unlocked too much too fast and officially ignored the results of that :mad: A slower more measured re-opening was clearly called for so as to maintain some control over this but we didn'tget that. Our Governor could have done better but apparently he lacks the 'cojones' to take a hard stand when needed unlike his predecessor- she had no 'cojones' but is much stronger than him :p That would be funny hilarious were it not for the serious nature of things here. And we've got the problem of having 48 contiguous States with unrestricted travel in between so that really it doesn't much matter what each does since people from elsewhere are going to continue bringing the disease in until it's all over. Had it been dealt with better Nationally.....but we didn't get that either.

As I've said before, I think we're screwed here until there's a way to stop or fully treat this disease, and we have only our own personal decisions and efforts available to protect ourselves from it o_O That needs a deep re-think too. Perhaps we will see that happen during and after the next round of elections but I'm not holding out much hope for that either. Lives have value and unlike money they can't be recouped later on if lost :cool:

Phil
 
People up and down the west coast of Jutland are very happy the borders are finally opened, not least in regard to the Germans, lots of those up here every year and they put a lot of money in the pockets in those areas of the country.
To a large degree you can also argue that those areas of the country are driven by tourism alone.

They are now talking about flare ups here, and the need to rapid response to those, and i think that's also a good idea.
Actually the part of northern Jutland where the nursing home are hit, well its also up there the corona mink farm is and a few schools that also had to send home kids again.

Time for due diligence in spades i recon.
 
I don't think we entered lock-down too early
Locking down early means you needed to follow Australia and wait for zero virus before unlocking, but that wouldn't work given that you are not far from states with plenty of immunity who aren't going to bother getting to zero cases, New York, DC, etc. Now you have a choice of allowing more immunity to develop, or lock down with closed borders until a vaccine arrives, neither are good choices, but a compromise can be made.
 
Time for due diligence in spades i recon.
Denmark and Germany are also low on immunity, You are about equal, so borders can be opened, but opening restaurants etc. is going to be a big problem, outdoor eating only until the vaccine arrives!
 
Locking down early means you needed to follow Australia and wait for zero virus before unlocking, but that wouldn't work given that you are not far from states with plenty of immunity who aren't going to bother getting to zero cases, New York, DC, etc. Now you have a choice of allowing more immunity to develop, or lock down with closed borders until a vaccine arrives, neither are good choices, but a compromise can be made.

Part of our unique problem here is that States do not really have the right to close their borders. A rather nasty war was fought over how far a State can go towards self-governance but the legal question was never really resolved about that :( So no matter what a State does, it can only partially protect itself at best, as it's non-codified rules cannot be fully applied to non-residents passing through except in a declared emergency, and State laws seeking to exceed this level are illegal. It's a National problem which should (and could) be addressed properly but won't be because it involves too much hard thought, which Politicians are always short on having.

Phil
 
This may cover a few of SawMaster's concerns about the Oxford Vaccine:


Germany becoming complacent, surprised they weren't doing daily tests there:

Expect other publishers that Trump can't get his hands on to start being imprisoned for publishing "fake news" as we get closer to election day:
Oops, misjudged him again, apparently his plan isn't just imprisonment:
 
Yes Danish owned slaughterhouse in Germany, or at least Danish crown own a big stake in it.
Here in Randers we also had a slaughterhouse, but i think it also got outsourced.

One more mink farm near the other one are being tested for corona
 
UK and Ireland declare that Apple is preventing use of effective contact tracing apps. It is not clear why Apple won't change their system to allow lives to be saved!
The centralised version trialled on the Isle of Wight worked well at assessing the distance between two users, but was poor at recognising Apple's iPhones. Specifically, the software registered about 75% of nearby Android handsets but only 4% of iPhones.

By contrast, the Apple-Google model logged 99% of both Android mobiles and iPhones. But its distance calculations were weaker. In some instances, it could not differentiate between a phone in a user's pocket 1m (3.3ft) away and a phone in a user's hand 3m (9.8ft) away.

"Apple software prevents iPhones being used effectively for contact tracing unless you're using Apple's own technology," he said. "Our app won't work because Apple won't change that system... and their app can't measure distance well enough to a standard that we are satisfied with. "What matters is what works. Because what works will save lives."

Baroness Harding added: "What we've done in really rigorously testing both our own Covid-19 app and the Google-Apple version is demonstrate that none of them are working sufficiently well enough to be actually reliable to determine whether any of us should self-isolate for two weeks [and] that's true across the world."
 
same problems here with iPhones, Apple did release an update specifically to improve this but it's still munted in comparison to the Android version
 
same problems here with iPhones, Apple did release an update specifically to improve this but it's still munted in comparison to the Android version
It would be interesting to know why Apple isn't prepared to use the UK's "accurate" distance measurement software in their "secure" system.

Clearly it is not acceptable for people to have to go into lockdown for two weeks because Apple can't distinguish a phone in someones pocket 1m away and someone holding a phone 3m away and the other side of a wall.

Since the UK seems to be giving up, I guess they don't think it is ever going to work satisfactorily anyway, or possibly don't think it is going to be of much benefit. I gather that the Aussie version hasn't actually usefully detected any contacts so far.
 
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