HELP! HIT AND RUN! Can almost make out the plate!!!

[Dashmellow]

Speaking of the OP, where the heck is he?

@leaf_Huntington, you likely got way more of an earful of interesting feedback, analysis and discussion from us DCT denizens than you probably were expecting, so now it's your turn, How about some sort of reply? What do you think, and what has happened since the accident, if anything? How's your car?

 

[Nigel]

You still gloss over the fact that no one expects a car to cross TWO left only turn lanes, to make a right turn.

Wrong. Some drivers don't expect it, but others will consider the possibility of that happening and not put themselves in a situation which is unnecessarily dangerous. Some drivers regularly get involved in accidents that are not their fault, other drivers never do.

If I had been driving through that junction, even if I hadn't seen the Lexus indicating, which I probably would have, then I would not have passed the Toyota, I would have stayed a little behind, so that if the Toyota unexpectedly moved into my lane then there would not have been a problem, and when the Toyota put its brakes on I would have questioned why? In the event that it wasn't obvious then I would also have slowed, and avoided the accident that way.

Of course if you enjoy having accidents, or the thrill of near misses, then you do have the choice to drive as riskilly as you like, especially if you like arguing with the police when they stop you and suggest a careless driving charge!

It was a junction, there is no need to save a few seconds in a junction by overtaking everything in sight. You can wait until after the junction when it is far safer to overtake, drive the same speed as those surrounding you through a junction and don't overlap your vehicle with theirs, especially when they are further forward than you so might not know you are there. Of course those rules are more appropriate to the UK than USA because in the UK most of our junctions of this size are roundabouts where this type of accident is more likely to occur if people race each other through the junctions! Here, it tends to be only the inexperienced drivers who overtake through junctions and after a few accidents or near misses they learn the lesson!

 

[Nigel]

Speaking of the OP, where the heck is he?

@leaf_Huntington, you likely got way more of an earful of interesting feedback, analysis and discussion from us DCT denizens than you probably were expecting, so now it's your turn, How about some sort of reply? What do you think, and what has happened since the accident, if anything? How's your car?

One of the benefits of dashcams is that you can obtain and learn from feedback on your driving.
Some people listen to feedback, others get upset, disappear and continue getting involved in accidents!
If you don't like feedback then there is no need to read it, but I think overall we can all benefit from it, even when nobody can agree what it should be - just means that the same situation of nobody agreeing on the rules will occur on the roads!

 

[TonyM]

I noticed that both drivers chose to drive on from the scene. The OP continued straight and pulled over at the nearest place to stop, which seems reasonable to me rather than blocking the junction. The Lexus driver went right and can be seen later in the video continuing on their way. I think the Lexus driver had the opportunity to follow the OP and stop at a safe place off the junction.

 

[kamkar]

If it was me and i saw that that car did not stop real soon, i would have violated a bunch of traffic rules too ( carefully ) and been in pursuit with the intent to at least to get plate.

I dont think anyone can expect to do much in regard to a car changing lanes like that, IMO he/ she must bare the burden of that poor a decision.

 

[HonestReview]

Wrong. Some drivers don't expect it, but others will consider the possibility of that happening and not put themselves in a situation which is unnecessarily dangerous. Some drivers regularly get involved in accidents that are not their fault, other drivers never do.

If I had been driving through that junction, even if I hadn't seen the Lexus indicating, which I probably would have, then I would not have passed the Toyota, I would have stayed a little behind, so that if the Toyota unexpectedly moved into my lane then there would not have been a problem, and when the Toyota put its brakes on I would have questioned why? In the event that it wasn't obvious then I would also have slowed, and avoided the accident that way.

Of course if you enjoy having accidents, or the thrill of near misses, then you do have the choice to drive as riskilly as you like, especially if you like arguing with the police when they stop you and suggest a careless driving charge!

It was a junction, there is no need to save a few seconds in a junction by overtaking everything in sight. You can wait until after the junction when it is far safer to overtake, drive the same speed as those surrounding you through a junction and don't overlap your vehicle with theirs, especially when they are further forward than you so might not know you are there. Of course those rules are more appropriate to the UK than USA because in the UK most of our junctions of this size are roundabouts where this type of accident is more likely to occur if people race each other through the junctions! Here, it tends to be only the inexperienced drivers who overtake through junctions and after a few accidents or near misses they learn the lesson!

You keep blaming op....

Maybe he's a new driver? Maybe he lacks defensive driving skills? OK, so he can improve upon his situational awareness. Your suggestions don't change the fact the other driver cut through two Left Only turn lanes to make an illegal right turn. Striking OP's car.

The other drive not only hit OP's car, but he ran from the scene, and failed to stop.

Not sure how much more descriptive we can get here on fault.

 

[Dashmellow]

One of the benefits of dashcams is that you can obtain and learn from feedback on your driving.
Some people listen to feedback, others get upset, disappear and continue getting involved in accidents!
If you don't like feedback then there is no need to read it, but I think overall we can all benefit from it, even when nobody can agree what it should be - just means that the same situation of nobody agreeing on the rules will occur on the roads!

While it is true that we've often seen DCT members post examples of their own poor driving that they are woefully lacking awareness of such as driving too fast, tailgating, weaving in and out of traffic, improper overtaking, etc., the last thing we need is for some self-righteous, self appointed, holier-than-thou individual such as yourself repeatedly rebuking other DCT members for the illegal and dangerous actions of other drivers who might abruptly cut across their path as we've seen in this scenario and with a recent similar situation where you criticized another member whose quick reflexes avoided an accident when a distracted driver suddenly swerved into his lane. According to you this member "would have been better to have taken avoiding action before the reflexes were needed".

The simple fact is that unless you are the one behind the steering wheel, you have no idea what the actual circumstances were for the driver, his perceptions or ability to maintain complete situational awareness given the situation and conditions.

Just because you feel omniscient looking at after-the-fact dash cam footage that in all likelihood reveals aspects of the circumstances that the driver may or may not have seen or been aware of in the moment doesn't give you a legitimate right to be so smug, condescending and judgmental towards others.

Much as you would have us all believe, you are not the world's most perfect and precision driver as you present yourself to be. Your so called "feedback" in situations like this often comes across as more offensive than instructional to many.

 

[HonestReview]

End of the day @Nigel, an accident occurred. The driver that fled committed multiple crimes. My guess, he/she probably had no insurance, or there would have been no reason to flee. As the driver turning left illegally clearly knew he/she struck the OP's car. Colliding with another car would have been hard to miss unless this was some little old 90 year old woman / man who is a danger to everyone on the road and should have given up driving long ago.

 

[Nigel]

Colliding with another car would have been hard to miss

Was it?
How much damage was there?
The OP didn't chase after the other car, went and parked at the shop instead, so possibly didn't notice either at the time!

Don't see any evidence of a collision on the video, so it could be a very minor bumper scratch, or maybe a minor dent in the bumper?
Certainly didn't spin the OP around.

 

[Dashmellow]

Was it?
How much damage was there?
The OP didn't chase after the other car, went and parked at the shop instead, so possibly didn't notice either at the time!

Don't see any evidence of a collision on the video, so it could be a very minor bumper scratch, or maybe a minor dent in the bumper?
Certainly didn't spin the OP around.

Based on the OP's reaction clearly something happened to his car. Plus, the last section of the video ends with what sounds like him apparently making a phone call to report the incident after getting out of his vehicle where he would have seen any damage that occurred. Whether it was minor damage or not is irrelevant. Who are you to be so dismissive?

 

[HonestReview]

Was it?
How much damage was there?
The OP didn't chase after the other car, went and parked at the shop instead, so possibly didn't notice either at the time!

Don't see any evidence of a collision on the video, so it could be a very minor bumper scratch, or maybe a minor dent in the bumper?
Certainly didn't spin the OP around.

I respect your opinion here most times as you are often and informative DCT poster. I respectfully disagree with you 100%. Minor or not, it appears the guys car was hit. Had OP captured at fault party's plates, "not knowing" you caused an accident isn't a valid excuse. The person making the illegal turn broke the law and knew what he did was wrong. And it would be hard to believe, unless this is some really old person, that any impact would not make a sound.

So yes, if this is a 90 year old lady / man, they wouldn't probably get in trouble. But they'd have their license removed I am sure. Other than that, this is a clear hit and run. A minor love tap or major damage is irrelevant.

 

[Lothar]

Isn't the purpose of the yield signs to allow traffic from the left to cross into the right lane? But they are supposed to do it before the lane markings turn solid?

Nobody answered Tony's question about how the junction is supposed to work!

Not at all.
The yield sign is to inform merging drivers must prepare to stop if necessary to let a driver already on the lane that they're trying to merge into to proceed.
In this case though the Lexus driver was 2 lanes away, the OP was not merging into the same lane as the Lexus driver so for all intensive purposes the yield sign is irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that it's not anywhere near where the accident occurred.

 

[Lothar]

Nobody has ever suggested that the Lexus was not at fault!

What I suggested was that although the Lexus was at fault, it would have been sensible for the OP to have avoided the collision. The Toyota that the Lexus cut across first braked to avoid the collision and so avoided getting damaged, the OP accelerated into the collision so did get damaged.


We can see the Lexus indicating a right turn for a quarter of a minute before the collision, plenty of time to to plan a safe option!

Are we supposed to assume that anyone that has their right turn light on means that they're trying to jump 2 lanes?
"Right turn light" means you want to turn right in the lane directly next to you. It does not mean (nor does it give you the right of way) to jump 2 lanes.

 

[country_hick]

There are experts who can clarify pictures to show more details IF it is possible technologically.

 

[Hermes14]

From the footage, clearly the Lexus was at fault but it looks like the OP's intention was to collide.
In South Africa a Judge or Magistrate will ask himself before passing a verdict, how would a reasonable person in a sound state of mind have reacted.
Even if the OP didn't see the Lexus indicating or thought the Lexus was only going to change one lane, seconds before impact he would have got a fright & braked.
The OP will definitely need to get more evidence to prove his story because if the Ops dashcam is the only evidence, the Lexus driver can argue the OP fled the scene, perhaps see if the garage hasn't got cctv footage of the incident.

In future if you are involved in a collision, stop your car immediately.
Take pictures of the position of both vehicles, broken glass or collision debris on the ground.
At least get the name of the other driver & if there are no injuries then arrange to drive to a safe place to exchange information if your country allows it.

You can try using something like Focus Magic to do a pixel alignment https://www.focusmagic.com/.
Just make sure you keep the original unaltered footage if you want to use it as evidence in court.

 

[Nigel]

Are we supposed to assume that anyone that has their right turn light on means that they're trying to jump 2 lanes?

I would always assume that someone indicating right was intending to turn right, maybe just 1 lane, but since they are at a junction where it is possible to turn right, maybe a 90 degree turn, unless it was a BMW, in which case I would assume they were going to turn left!

My comment was not about the law, and I don't know what the law is there anyway, just that the OP could have chosen to avoid the accident. In my country you are supposed to avoid accidents, but even if that is not the case in the OP's country, it still seems like a good idea to me because it would have saved a lot of arguing! My original comment:

That vehicle had been indicating a right turn since well before you passed the "Yield" sign, legally it may not be your fault, but realistically you should have yielded and avoided the collision just as the person to your left did.

It was not difficult or inconvenient to avoid getting into danger, just match the speed of the Toyota.

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

Wrong. Some drivers don't expect it, but others will consider the possibility of that happening and not put themselves in a situation...

Nope. Choice of music, cam, and mount not withstanding, OP did nothing wrong here.

The intersection is crappy because there's very little room for incoming traffic to filter into the right turn lane from the far left lanes, which I suspect often results in vehicles not being able to get there when they want to.

That's just New Jersey for ya.

That Lexus was stuck in a left turn lane, and once he entered the intersection, was legally obligated to turn left. And he should have sucked it up and done just that, then found a way to legally turn himself around down the road, as others have said.

Were I the OP, I'd have done the same thing. I'm in the "proceed straight" lane, the light turns green, that lane is MINE. I'd keep a cautious peripheral eye on the guy in the left lane next to me, but not someone two lanes over.

Your analysis of the situation assumes that the OP was somehow partially at fault for not being omniscient. He was likely looking ahead to clear his own path, while you--likely incorrectly--assume that he was seeing and processing everything his camera was with its much wider FOV.

Lastly, from a legal perspective, he was fully entitled to assume that every other driver there was going to follow applicable traffic laws just as he was.

You continue to insist that he either did something wrong, or he should have known some other driver was going to so egregiously violate traffic laws and so had a duty to avoid it.

Might be true where you live, but not here.

Your argument is the equivalent of blaming a guy who got hit in a roundabout by someone failing to yield while entering because he failed to anticipate that guy might break traffic rules while he was looking ahead to clear his own path.

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

From the footage, clearly the Lexus was at fault but it looks like the OP's intention was to collide.
In South Africa a Judge or Magistrate will ask himself before passing a verdict, how would a reasonable person in a sound state of mind have reacted.

"You broke no traffic rules, the guy who hit you did, but you should have been able to read his mind, see it coming, and avoid him. So you're partially to blame for him hitting you."

Exactly why I always hated driving in Europe: The legal doctrine of "You're always partially at fault for anything that happens to you just for existing."

 

[SawMaster]

Here in SC USA we have a "Due care and diligence" law which means you are to drive in a safe and cautious manner avoiding collision wherever that's possible, regardless of right-of-way. You can be charged with that offense even when the other driver did not have right of way although that rarely happens. If someone starts coming into your lane or cuts you off you are expected to give them that space unless doing so would likely result in harm to someone else

And oddly enough, non-emergency vehicle drivers here never have right-of-way; rather the laws state only when you do not have right-of-way and must yield to the other driver(s) without actually assigning them right-of-way over you Weird indeed.

Phil

 

[kamkar]

I often watch dashcam videos thinking, that guy did not show due diligence at all.
Funny enough i most often feel that looking at American footage, where for instance the Russian footage with a similar situation i just think stupid and sure as hell dont expect to see any due diligence..
I assume it is BECUZ i expect more from a American.

Danish police have speed week this week, several vehicles have already been confiscated, a motorcyclist lost his pretty new crotch rocket, and one of the guys that lost his car yesterday did 140 kmh in a 60 kmh zone.
Monday a 24 kid with a BAC way past 2.0 got his mothers car confiscated, and aside for alcohol he also had Cocaine - Amphetamine and a couple of other drugs in the blood.
In that case it was another driver that picked him up followed him and called police, the guy was all over the place including sidewalks.