HELP! HIT AND RUN! Can almost make out the plate!!!

[Nigel]

Actually, UK police are trained to disarm a knife wielding suspect. Things may not have been as they seemed. The UK wants voluntary cooperation instead of fear and force. I tihnk the UK model is better. It protects the people from quick tempered triggers.

And when you have 3 against 1, letting him chase you around for a while tires him out 3x faster than you, the longer it goes on, the safer everyone is! Most knifemen are people with mental problems who need help, not assassination.

UK police are of course armed, but usually only with battens, or the modern equivalent, which mean that police can't use excessive force even if they want to, a batton is almost useless for killing or causing serious injury. As long as everyone knows that then the police are safe, nobody is going to use a gun against them, so everyone can be relaxed and just play games. People who don't follow the rules don't tend to last long here.

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

And when you have 3 against 1, letting him chase you around for a while tires him out 3x faster than you, the longer it goes on, the safer everyone is! Most knifemen are people with mental problems who need help, not assassination.

UK police are of course armed, but usually only with battens, or the modern equivalent, which mean that police can't use excessive force even if they want to, a batton is almost useless for killing or causing serious injury. As long as everyone knows that then the police are safe, nobody is going to use a gun against them, so everyone can be relaxed and just play games. People who don't follow the rules don't tend to last long here.

LOL. THAT is exactly why your cops and legal system are useless. Your answer to criminals is to coddle them. "He's got a knife! Let's tire him out by letting him chase us around!" Looks as stupid as it sounds when you watch it. Wonder what their protocol is when the criminals have guns... And there are plenty that do in the UK, don't even try to pretend there aren't.

Your criminals don't fear your police, your courts, your jails, and they certainly don't fear their victims, as you've disarmed them all and threatened them with the legal action that should be reserved for criminals if they even think of trying to defend themselves. Ridiculous.

I don't care about some knife-wielding asshole's mental state, he needs to be put down quick and hard if he doesn't surrender. The cops have to apply continuum of force when they reasonably can, but I don't. If some knife-wielding asshole is coming at me and mine, he ****ed up and brought a knife to a gunfight. I'm not playing 20 questions to ascertain his mental state.

And if you think a baton is almost useless for killing or causing serious injury, you've told us all that you know absolutely nothing about anatomy and self defense, nor have you ever been trained in the use of a baton. Somebody with a stick, baton, baseball bat, or any similar instrument can quickly and easily beat you to death without much effort at all. Real life ain't like the telly.

 

[Dashmellow]

And if you think a baton is almost useless for killing or causing serious injury, you've told us all that you know absolutely nothing about anatomy and self defense, nor have you ever been trained in the use of a baton. Somebody with a stick, baton, baseball bat, or any similar instrument can quickly and easily beat you to death without much effort at all. Real life ain't like the telly.

You make a number of good observations in your post but this one stood out to me. Using a baton you can also jab someone stategically causing them stop an attack. I was once trained how to use a tightly rolled up newspaper to defend against an attacker by jabbing them in the throat or the sternum. Of course, a baton would be more effective used in that way. No reason to run around in circles like the Keystone Cops.

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

You make a number of good observations in your post but this one stood out to me. Using a baton you can also jab someone strategically causing them stop an attack. I was once trained how to use a tightly rolled up newspaper to defend against an attacker by jabbing them in the throat or the sternum. Of course, a baton would be more effective used in that way. No reason to run around in circles like the Keystone Cops.

Agree 100%. If you're trained to do that and have the skill to execute those kind of strikes while under duress/attack. I'm sure British cops do receive some kind of training--likely more out of concern for liability than anything else--but apparently the "Tire them out by letting them chase us around" protocol is preferable, according to our resident expert.

Of course, the obvious downside to any knife vs. stick argument is that they're both contact weapons. If you're close enough to hit him with your stick, he's close enough to stab or slash you with his knife, and his weapon is far easier to use to kill you, even with little or no training. And you can't rely on any stick technique to stop an attack. Plenty of bad guys have been shot multiple times and still continue to attack.

A firearm is a standoff weapon, with all its attendant advantages. I'll take it over a stick any day. Thankfully, we still can here (in most places, anyway...)

 

[Dashmellow]

Agree 100%. If you're trained to do that and have the skill to execute those kind of strikes while under duress/attack. I'm sure British cops do receive some kind of training--likely more out of concern for liability than anything else--but apparently the "Tire them out by letting them chase us around" protocol is preferable, according to our resident expert.

Of course, the obvious downside to any knife vs. stick argument is that they're both contact weapons. If you're close enough to hit him with your stick, he's close enough to stab or slash you with his knife, and his weapon is far easier to use to kill you, even with little or no training. And you can't rely on any stick technique to stop an attack. Plenty of bad guys have been shot multiple times and still continue to attack.

A firearm is a standoff weapon, with all its attendant advantages. I'll take it over a stick any day. Thankfully, we still can here (in most places, anyway...)

It's true that a contact weapon like a baton is one that requires skill under threat and duress. And of course the idea behind a rolled up newspaper is that it can be effective in an emergency when you've got literlally nothing else. I would also agree about the value of a firearm, although a taser or mace could be used when lethal force can be avoided. Law enforcement should be equiped and prepared for any eventuality but trained to use as much restraint as possible given the circumstances.

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

Law enforcement should be equiped and prepared for any eventuality but trained to use as much restraint as possible given the circumstances.

No argument here. They should be.

That said, properly trained and equipped cops should be able to use the entire continuum of force as the situation dictates.

I would never hand a cop a stick and tell him "This is all you've got, don't hurt the bad guys no matter how hard they're trying to kill you." That's patently ridiculous. Glad we don't do it here. I can't fathom why anybody would want to be a cop in the UK.

 

[Lothar]

And when you have 3 against 1, letting him chase you around for a while tires him out 3x faster than you, the longer it goes on, the safer everyone is! Most knifemen are people with mental problems who need help, not assassination.

UK police are of course armed, but usually only with battens, or the modern equivalent, which mean that police can't use excessive force even if they want to, a batton is almost useless for killing or causing serious injury. As long as everyone knows that then the police are safe, nobody is going to use a gun against them, so everyone can be relaxed and just play games. People who don't follow the rules don't tend to last long here.

3 UK officers armed with batons, pepper spray, or tasers cannot apprehend a knife wielding suspect?
The best solution is for them to outrun their suspect?...Really?...That speaks to their lack of proper training than anything else.

 

[HonestReview]

Do UK police not have tasers? I honestly can't remember as it's been 8 years since I last visited UK.

 

[Nigel]

Do UK police not have tasers? I honestly can't remember as it's been 8 years since I last visited UK.

About 10% have had training but I think most of them don’t normally carry them, and the ones that do tend to get criticised when they use them, especially when their victim dies.

 

[Lothar]

Do UK police not have tasers? I honestly can't remember as it's been 8 years since I last visited UK.

UK​

Tasers have been in use by UK police forces since 2003, and require 18 hours of training in order for an officer to be allowed use one. Members of the general public are not allowed to own tasers, with possession or sale of a taser punishable by up to 10 years in prison.[75] As of September 2019, 30,548 (19%) of police officers were trained to use tasers.[76] Tasers were used 23,000 times from March 2018 to March 2019, compared to only 10,000 times in 2013.[77] In March 2020, extra funding was provided to purchase devices to allow more than 8,000 extra UK police officers to carry a taser.[78]

This is from Wikipedia with sources.

 

[HonestReview]

This is from Wikipedia with sources.

At least a taser would provide some non lethal protection against knife wielding idiots. Saw in news a British Politician was stabbed to death. Wonder if he had any sort of security at the time.

 

[HonestReview]

Even if the general UK police walk around unarmed and coward in the face of danger, the Police guarding the "Royals" at Buckingham Palace don't play games.

 

[Nigel]

At least a taser would provide some non lethal protection against knife wielding idiots.

Apparently not needed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty , USA is already at 360 this year!

 

[HonestReview]

Apparently not needed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty , USA is already at 360 this year!

FYI: The list also omits the more than 300 officers of the former Royal Ulster Constabulary,[2] and current Police Service of Northern Ireland who were killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Maybe not, but I find it ironic how Royals always have gun wielding police officers / soldiers at their disposal.

The Swedish Police at the Royal Palace Play even Less.....Can both Bayonet and Shoot you.....

 

[Nigel]

FYI: The list also omits…

Of course it does, very different over there to in GB, police there have guns, and so do the criminals.

 

[Dashmellow]

A timely current event in the discussion about whether police officers should carry guns.


"Norway on Saturday announced it will hold an independent investigation into the actions of police and security agencies following a bow-and-arrow attack that killed five people and injured three others. Police have been criticized for reacting too slowly to contain the massacre, acknowledging that the five deaths took place after police first encountered the attacker.

Norway’s domestic intelligence agency, known by the acronym PST, said it decided to seek the review after consulting with the country’s national and regional police commanders about the attack Wednesday night in the southern town of Kongsberg. A 37-year-old local resident who police said has admitted to the killings has been detained and is undergoing psychiatric evaluation.

"Given the seriousness of the matter, it is very important that learning points and any weaknesses and errors are identified quickly in order to be able to implement measures immediately," PST said in a statement.

Norwegian media have questioned how long it took officers to apprehend suspect Espen Andersen Braathen after the regional police department received reports about a man shooting arrows at a supermarket. According to a police timeline, the first information on the attack was logged at 6:13 p.m. and Andersen Braathen was caught at 6:47 p.m.

Authorities haven’t revealed what precisely happened within that 34-minute period.

In general, police officials say the first officers on the scene observed the suspect but took cover and called for reinforcements when arrows were fired at them. The officials have acknowledged the armed suspect got away and then likely killed the five victims between the ages of 52 and 78 both outdoors and inside some apartments.

Norway is one of the few dozen countries in the world where law enforcement officers don’t automatically carry guns though they have a rapid access to guns and other weapons, depending on the situation. Authorities in a statement said police were unarmed during their first encounter and armed during later encounters with the alleged assailant."

Norway to investigate tactics of unarmed police officers after five die in bow-and-arrow attack ​

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

A timely current event in the discussion about whether police officers should carry guns.


"Norway on Saturday announced it will hold an independent investigation into the actions of police and security agencies following a bow-and-arrow attack that killed five people and injured three others. Police have been criticized for reacting too slowly to contain the massacre, acknowledging that the five deaths took place after police first encountered the attacker.

Norway’s domestic intelligence agency, known by the acronym PST, said it decided to seek the review after consulting with the country’s national and regional police commanders about the attack Wednesday night in the southern town of Kongsberg. A 37-year-old local resident who police said has admitted to the killings has been detained and is undergoing psychiatric evaluation.

"Given the seriousness of the matter, it is very important that learning points and any weaknesses and errors are identified quickly in order to be able to implement measures immediately," PST said in a statement.

Norwegian media have questioned how long it took officers to apprehend suspect Espen Andersen Braathen after the regional police department received reports about a man shooting arrows at a supermarket. According to a police timeline, the first information on the attack was logged at 6:13 p.m. and Andersen Braathen was caught at 6:47 p.m.

Authorities haven’t revealed what precisely happened within that 34-minute period.

In general, police officials say the first officers on the scene observed the suspect but took cover and called for reinforcements when arrows were fired at them. The officials have acknowledged the armed suspect got away and then likely killed the five victims between the ages of 52 and 78 both outdoors and inside some apartments.

Norway is one of the few dozen countries in the world where law enforcement officers don’t automatically carry guns though they have a rapid access to guns and other weapons, depending on the situation. Authorities in a statement said police were unarmed during their first encounter and armed during later encounters with the alleged assailant."

Norway to investigate tactics of unarmed police officers after five die in bow-and-arrow attack ​

So much for that "...rapid access to guns..." eh?!

 

[Dashmellow]

So much for that "...rapid access to guns..." eh?!

I wonder what actual contingency they were planning for when they implemented the "rapid access to guns & other waepons" policy, and I also wonder exactly how long it took for these officers to rapidly access their guns in this particular situation?

 

[KANNINA 2.0]

I wonder what actual contingency they were planning for when they implemented the "rapid access to guns & other waepons" policy, and I also wonder exactly how long it took for these officers to rapidly access their guns in this particular situation?

Too long for those 8 people...

 

[Dashmellow]

Too long for those 5 people...

Yes, that's the salient factoid here, isn't it?