Mobius

[Necromancer]

Would a capacitor allow to save the date & time?

 

[niko]

Would a capacitor allow to save the date & time?

Yes, capacitor role is to save last video file and to keep all vital info in the memory ( time, other settings, etc ), so nothing is reset.

 

[BobDiaz]

Would a capacitor allow to save the date & time?

IF the capacitor is large enough to provide power for shutdown and the update clock, yes it would work.

I was able to locate a lot of critical information to calculate how long a capacitor would last providing power, BUT I don't know how long the Mobius takes to shutdown. In standby state, the clock requires only 15uA (micro amps) of current, which is a very small amount of current.

Without knowing the shutdown time I can't say if a 1F capacitor is enough. Because it's just not possible to fit one inside the limited space, the capacitor would need to be external. At that point, I could gang up several in parallel to increase the time.

Right now I'm thinking that if I go with the Mobius, I'd wait for the battery to die, then try to replace it with an external super capacitor(s).

 

[jokiin]

ours are 2.7v caps (in pairs to make 5.4v just like that one you listed is under the cover) and 15F each, most use at least the one pair, we're using two pairs so we have a bit more power in reserve

 

[BobDiaz]

ours are 2.7v caps (in pairs to make 5.4v just like that one you listed is under the cover) and 15F each, most use at least the one pair, we're using two pairs so we have a bit more power in reserve

Forgive me for thinking out loud here ...

Two capacitors in series makes the 15F capacitors act like a single 7.5F capacitor. Now take and put both sets in parallel and the total is 15F.

In looking up the larger value super capacitors, I'm surprised that the cost is reasonable, only $6.98 USA, quantity 1. Not bad for 35F @ 2.5V. Two in series would give 17.5F @ 5 V for around 35 seconds of shutdown on the Mobius...

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HB1635-2R5356-R/283-3129-ND/2616964

 

[jokiin]

how much shutdown you would get I'm not sure, system resources on the Mobius platform would be a lot lighter than ours so could get away with less I would think

interested in what you work out anyway

 

[BobDiaz]

jokiin,

Just to let you know, I'm waiting until January 2014 until I really decide which camera I'm going with. My logic is that after around 6 months of being out there, I should have a bit better idea how well the Mobius is holding up. While I still lean toward the Mobius, I'm still open to other possibilities.

Are you allowed to say what camera your company manufactures? Just wondering...

 

[jokiin]

Are you allowed to say what camera your company manufactures? Just wondering...

As a supplier when you do work for others there are often NDA's in place (if the customer is large it's pretty much a standard), we have this type of agreement in place for some other product we do

Even if the customer is small though then ethically it's not something you would disclose anyway, I don't at least, some like to shout from the rooftops who they do work for, I think for the most part buyers don't want to let out who they deal with, not so much because they want to keep it from their customers but more because they'd prefer to keep it from their competitors

We are doing some product of our own which will be a different situation, for these it will be obvious this is our product as I'll be talking about it and supporting it directly, we are exhibiting at the Hong Kong electronics show this month so will have new product of our own there along with some other stuff we're doing

 

[Isoprop]

I don't use my Mobius as a dashcam, but I would like to put the info about using a Super Capacitor in the Mobius straight. For the time being, the info below should be treated as "experimental".

It is possible to use 2 x 5F 2.7V Super Capacitors wired in series which equates to a total capacitance of 2.5F. This is a direct replacement for the battery and will fit nicely into the Mobius' case.
The date and time will always be lost when disconnecting external power because the Super Capacitors can't keep the RTC (run time clock) running for very long.
The configuration is stored in NVRAM (non-volatile RAM) so it will never be lost.
Using a Super Capacitor is not supported in the current firmware release. As soon as power is removed the camera must immediately save the current recording and shut-down. It must do this before the Super Capacitors discharge. This functionality requires an additional parameter which will possibly be implemented in an upcoming FW release.
It is likely that the official Chinese Mobius sellers will offer the Super Capacitor pair for sale, but I can't guarantee anything. Asking won't hurt.

 

[niko]

I don't use my Mobius as a dashcam, but I would like to put the info about using a Super Capacitor in the Mobius straight. For the time being, the info below should be treated as "experimental".

It is possible to use 2 x 5F 2.7V Super Capacitors wired in series which equates to a total capacitance of 2.5F. This is a direct replacement for the battery and will fit nicely into the Mobius' case.
The date and time will always be lost when disconnecting external power because the Super Capacitors can't keep the RTC (run time clock) running for very long.
The configuration is stored in NVRAM (non-volatile RAM) so it will never be lost.
Using a Super Capacitor is not supported in the current firmware release. As soon as power is removed the camera must immediately save the current recording and shut-down. It must do this before the Super Capacitors discharge. This functionality requires an additional parameter which will possibly be implemented in an upcoming FW release.
It is likely that the official Chinese Mobius sellers will offer the Super Capacitor pair for sale, but I can't guarantee anything. Asking won't hurt.

Good to see you joined this forum and ready to share info we all need. On RCgroups you do a great job. It is hard to follow two forums at same time. "We" dash cam users have some times different needs, so your presence here is much appreciated.
I wish Tom also could join this forum and participate in Mobius discussion. We can learn a lot from you both.

 

[Isoprop]

Good to see you joined this forum and ready to share info we all need. On RCgroups you do a great job. It is hard to follow two forums at same time. "We" dash cam users have some times different needs, so your presence here is much appreciated.
I wish Tom also could join this forum and participate in Mobius discussion. We can learn a lot from you both.

Thanks for the good words . I don't use my Mobius as a dashcam so have no experience in this area. Most information about the Mobius can be found on the main RCGroup thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904559&pp=100 but if there's a specific question, like about the capacitor, then I'll try and reply as best as I can. I can't imagine RC users have any interest in a capacitor, so discussion over there is off topic anyway .
I have to admit I was impressed how well the capacitor performed in my Mobius and can well imagine it could be useful in warm environments where the internal battery has to be protected from excessive heat. With the Supercaps mentioned, there is plenty of time for the Mobius to save the current file and shutdown correctly - at least in my short experiments.

 

[niko]

Thanks for the good words . I don't use my Mobius as a dashcam so have no experience in this area. Most information about the Mobius can be found on the main RCGroup thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904559&pp=100 but if there's a specific question, like about the capacitor, then I'll try and reply as best as I can. I can't imagine RC users have any interest in a capacitor, so discussion over there is off topic anyway .
I have to admit I was impressed how well the capacitor performed in my Mobius and can well imagine it could be useful in warm environments where the internal battery has to be protected from excessive heat. With the Supercaps mentioned, there is plenty of time for the Mobius to save the current file and shutdown correctly - at least in my short experiments.

From you last words I understand that you have already replaced battery for capacitors, right? What exact ones you used?

You and Tom have more influence with convincing a manufacturers. Please ask them to take a look into this forum so they will realize that Mobius being as dash camera actually has 100s times more potential to generate much bigger sales than if only ( mostly ) positioned for RC market, if some issues will be solved or even separate model with capacitors will be developed.

My proposals on what need to be done for Mobius to be most popular dash cam.

1. Capacitor instead of battery.
2. Adding motion detection recording / auto parking mode.
3. Firmware tune up for better night performance.( check my post #222 for video comparison ). Mobius has similar hardware as dod ls300w, nt96650 + ar0330, so in theory it has potential of better night perfirmance if firmware is correctly tuned up.
Day time is better than ls300w. I will post side by side video soon.

 

[Isoprop]

From you last words I understand that you have already replaced battery for capacitors, right? What exact ones you used?

You and Tom have more influence with convincing a manufacturers. Please ask them to take a look into this forum so they will realize that Mobius being as dash camera actually has 100s times more potential to generate much bigger sales than if only ( mostly ) positioned for RC market, if some issues will be solved or even separate model with capacitors will be developed.

My proposals on what need to be done for Mobius to be most popular dash cam.

1. Capacitor instead of battery.
2. Adding motion detection recording / auto parking mode.
3. Firmware tune up for better night performance.( check my post #222 for video comparison ). Mobius has similar hardware as dod ls300w, nt96650 + ar0330, so in theory it has potential of better night perfirmance if firmware is correctly tuned up.
Day time is better than ls300w. I will post side by side video soon.

Yes, for testing purposes I have replaced the battery with a Supercap pair as described in my post #237. 2x 5F @ 2.7V in series.
It was your comparison video, notably the low-light differences, that led me to this thread

• The developer is aware of point #1.
• Motion detection is planned for the next major release, but we are far from that release at present.
• Not sure what you mean by "auto parking mode", but if you mean the camera should continue to record after you turn off the ignition, then yes, this feature is known to the developer.
• As Tom has posted many times in his RC thread, tweaking the colors, WB etc. is an on-going process. This is proving to be very, very time consuming but is still planned for the next major release.

Please don't ask when all this will happen. Nobody knows. As in any such complex project, development can take a lot longer than expected, especially when unforeseen issues appear. This is inevitable.
A minor FW release with better support for the new wide-angle lens and an additional parameter or two is expected soon. Tom has mentioned this too.
It will always be Tom who announces new functionality in his RC thread first. I may follow up if things aren't clear.

In the meantime there are so many threads on the Mobius that it's all but impossible to follow them all. However, all the important information seems to find it's way into the RC thread, which the developer follows very closely. He also takes dashcam functionality seriously but the Mobius can't do everything perfectly. A good example is using the Mobius in extreme temperatures. This will never work properly because the Mobius is designed to be small and compact. If the Mobius is expected to work in extreme temperatures then some form of active cooling will be necessary. As an all-round cam, the Mobius can't be beat, IMO .

 

[niko]

Yes, for testing purposes I have replaced the battery with a Supercap pair as described in my post #237. 2x 5F @ 2.7V in series.
It was your comparison video, notably the low-light differences, that led me to this thread

• The developer is aware of point #1.
• Motion detection is planned for the next major release, but we are far from that release at present.
• Not sure what you mean by "auto parking mode", but if you mean the camera should continue to record after you turn off the ignition, then yes, this feature is known to the developer.
• As Tom has posted many times in his RC thread, tweaking the colors, WB etc. is an on-going process. This is proving to be very, very time consuming but is still planned for the next major release.

Please don't ask when all this will happen. Nobody knows. As in any such complex project, development can take a lot longer than expected, especially when unforeseen issues appear. This is inevitable.
A minor FW release with better support for the new wide-angle lens and an additional parameter or two is expected soon. Tom has mentioned this too.
It will always be Tom who announces new functionality in his RC thread first. I may follow up if things aren't clear.

In the meantime there are so many threads on the Mobius that it's all but impossible to follow them all. However, all the important information seems to find it's way into the RC thread, which the developer follows very closely. He also takes dashcam functionality seriously but the Mobius can't do everything perfectly. A good example is using the Mobius in extreme temperatures. This will never work properly because the Mobius is designed to be small and compact. If the Mobius is expected to work in extreme temperatures then some form of active cooling will be necessary. As an all-round cam, the Mobius can't be beat, IMO .

AutoParking Mode for motion detection recording, is if dash camera hard-wired to the battery and after ignition switched off, dash camera goes automatically into motion detection stand by mode, without need of pressing any extra buttons or changing settings. After you turn on ignition, camera "feels" higher voltage impulse and switches back to normal recording mode.
Hope I managed to explain right way that you understand. Sorry, English is not my native language

I am aware of how unpredictable can be any development and will do respect your time and will not ask when something could be ready. Will just wait and see patiently.

I will do follow time to time your forum, but as I understood from Tom mentioning there that only forum related questions and posts are allowed there ( in Mobius thread ) not dash cam, so it is good that you willing to participate in this forum here, so we can discuss and address all "our" dash cam related Mobius questions.

I agree with you, Mobius is truly the best( vs price ) all-round camera at the moment.

P.S. I will be posting day time side by side videos today as well soon

 

[niko]

Here is Daytime video comparison: Mobius vs DOD LS300W vs Panorama2.
If at night time DOD LS300W was better than Mobius, then at day time Mobius colours are much rich than on DOD LS300W.

EV value on all 3 dash cams is set to "0".

 

[niko]

Video ( above ) followed by pictures screen shots.
As you might see differences of 3 dash cams in auto-white balance and colour richness.
In different light situations each dash camera behaviour is slightly different.
Overall judgement can do every person for them selves what he thinks best suits for him.

 

[efoo]

Panorama 2 consistently look brighter in both day and night video, even though all three cams are set on default EV 0, it seems Powerucc has adjusted Panorama 2's default exposure brighter than most cams, some of the sky and clouds appear blown out white.

 

[niko]

Panorama 2 consistently look brighter in both day and night video, even though all three cams are set on default EV 0, it seems Powerucc has adjusted Panorama 2's default exposure brighter than most cams, some of the sky and clouds appear blown out white.

Agree with you but lets dont forget that Panorama2 is ruffly 70% more expensive than Mobius and taking instead ls300w original TioTech gt300w which is same dash cam but for 106usd, ruffly40% cheaper than Panorama.
It is not fair to judge panorama2 to other much lower class dash cams.
I would say comparison to judge should be made between ls300w and Mobius because they are based on same cpu and cmos. But of course its good to know for your own reference how much you need to pay more to get better video quality.

First I analyzed night videos ( as you might saw from other thread ) and I was sad to see Mobius is loosing to ls300w. But after i did day time tests, we can see Mobius performs better. So its just a matter to fiddle with firmware to get the best possible day and night video quality balance.

 

[Mtz]

After you turn on ignition, camera "feels" higher voltage impulse and switches back to normal recording mode.

Mobius is a 5V camera, so the received power is always the same (I think) no matter if the car engine is running or not. In this case the solution could be an G-Sensor but I think now is too late to add something like this. I had some dicussions and ideas for the developer some time ago, before releasing the Mobius and maybe some of them are in the actual camera. In my brain the G-Sensor was the simplest idea to implement the auto-start of the camera or the parking mode, because when a car is running the G-Sensor is feeling this and in Parking Mode can detect a shock and also the Motion Detect (which is available in 808 #16) could be made depending on G-Sensor values.

My simple idea for more brightness during night was to let user set in the GUI from which hour to which hour is night, save that value, and camera to increase the brightness for that hours. The bright value is not an absolute value so during the transition from day to night the video will be not very affected. But the user will need to adjust this value 2 or 4 times/year.
A more complicated idea was the user to enter his location from a list and the camera based on some already known values for all locations in the firmware, to automatically adjust the brightness.
Even this idea is actually used by some dashcam in some form, I had this idea before any dashcam in the world.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[niko]

Mobius is a 5V camera, so the received power is always the same (I think) no matter if the car engine is running or not. In this case the solution could be an G-Sensor but I think now is too late to add something like this. I had some dicussions and ideas for the developer some time ago, before releasing the Mobius and maybe some of them are in the actual camera. In my brain the G-Sensor was the simplest idea to implement the auto-start of the camera or the parking mode, because when a car is running the G-Sensor is feeling this and in Parking Mode can detect a shock and also the Motion Detect (which is available in 808 #16) could be made depending on G-Sensor values.

My simple idea for more brightness during night was to let user set in the GUI from which hour to which hour is night, save that value, and camera to increase the brightness for that hours. The bright value is not an absolute value so during the transition from day to night the video will be not very affected. But the user will need to adjust this value 2 or 4 times/year.
A more complicated idea was the user to enter his location from a list and the camera based on some already known values for all locations in the firmware, to automatically adjust the brightness.
Even this idea is actually used by some dashcam in some form, I had this idea before any dashcam in the world.

enjoy,
Mtz

Your idea of changing / setting brightness or EV value manually by user 2-4 times a year is most easy solution ( something like Vico Scedule has )- its only matter of new firmware update and it should not be a complicated for programmers, but not all people will remember to do that. "We" human tend to get use to convenience and forget stuff over some period.

My proposal would be adding to the dash camera a light sensing "eye" that would determine what settings need to be adjusted depending on exact day / night scenario.