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[jokiin]

V.scary to encounter a Panamax container ship with a crew of maybe a half dozen (the ship's heavily automated and the crew can't do jack about containers if the get loose), who a) barely speak English and b) may or may not be keeping a good watch. The saving grace is usually they show up on AIS and there's a fair plot of where to go where they're not going to be.

And if one container goes, usually a bunch do. Some sink (don't want to know what methyl-ethyl-bad-stuff is in them) and some are just a touch on the buoyant side, which means you won't see one, during the day, until it's almost too late. At night... hope the EPIRB's battery works. They're too low in the water for radar to spot them. Even if it does, it's hard to tell their returns from wave clutter. We had some scares (USCG reporting some in x by y location) but never tagged one. The joys of even coastal cruising...

how did the crew on this ship go then

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1315197361960160

 

[kamkar]

O yeah you do not want to "dance" with one of those suckers.

My first ship as chief engineer ( a ship like arina arctica with 2 deck cranes but smaller ) the only Danes was me the captain and the chief officer, then we had a Pilipino cook and 2 Pilipino sailors, and that was it.
In all fairness the Pilipino guys was alright sailors at least by my judgment as a sort of newbie myself.
Never the less the ship did sink in the Mediterranean sea a year or 2 later, it was pretty crappy ship to put it lightly so when i heard it it was no surprise to me.

#2 time i was ENG was on a ship i mustered as a regular sailor, but after a few weeks i was upgraded to ENG and was that for close to 4 month before i went home, and i did say "no thx" when they asked if i would return, cuz it was the same deal though the ship owner made a killing on the snow crab we processed on the factory ship.

 

[kamkar]

how did the crew on this ship go then

I sailed wit ha guy that did the same with a deck full of brand new Land Rovers, tih a storm in the Bay of Biscay, so that's where the land rovers are today.
Even the purpose build car carriers get in almighty messes now and then.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-Isle-Wight-stop-capsizing-says-owner.html

The rear of my last tanker,,,, yes she was a fattie,,, they all are.

 

[RBEmerson]

Have a nice day...

 

[kamkar]

Hehe yes plenty of chances to loose your keel on one of those, its not all of them that head strait for the bottom.

 

[Deleted member 24437]

Do the shippers flag their ships in far east to save money on paying crews, and the licenses and maintenance rules are less restrictive in those countries like Singapore?
I watched a program on Planet Earth or National geographic which showed the hazard of using a southbound current to circle the Cape of Good Hope in less time and a graveyard of ships?

 

[kamkar]

There are financial reasons to outflag your ships.
Thats part of why Maersk got the deal with the government, his ships was then supposed to be moved to carry Danish flag, and Danish crew was hired on a so called netto payment, meaning the difference between netto and brutto the ship owner kept as a form of government support.
Also it let people with my educational background muster the ships after only 12 weeks of schooling as a full fledged sailor, something you in the old days had to have a couple years of effective sailing time before you could call yourself a full fledged sailor.
Marsk did the mistake with a brand new ship, they filled it with people like me fresh from 12 weeks on the school bench, they made it as far as Amsterdam then they was sent home and experienced sailors was called in.
The ships i was on i was the only sailor of my kind, and also why i have always been put in the engine room as there where the bulk of my educational knowledge lies outside of the 12 weeks on sailors school where you just learn the very basic stuff.
My kind meaning people with a "black" education, like machine worker - mechanics - tool makers ASO, you cant go my route into sailing if you have a education as a baker of course.
But as it turned out the government people signing off on the Maersk deal apparently dident read the small print, so within 2 years of that deal being made it was all over.

Denmark have always been a large sea fearing nation, even had a formidable navy, and we was some of the first to deploy a diesel powered ship, and out merchant marine have always been big, and once also crewed for the most by Danes.
Now they found they barely need Danish officers, so they are now getting hard to find too

I call Maersk the company that started Danish maritime operations,,,,,, and then killed it too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk

 

[RBEmerson]

Panama, Monrovia, Liberia, Malta, etc. all provide what is called a "flag of convenience". Give them money, they give you a flag to sail under, and a hailing port name for the stern. And, yes, it's all in the name of pinching a penny until it squeaks. I wasn't being racist or nasty when I said some ships' officers or watch standers barely speak English. Once again the Third World takes a scr**ing as nationals are hired for peanuts to run a whacking great ship. If they can at least somehow get through to pilots (people who bring ships into ports) and various coast guards... close enough. Since crews are so small, and there isn't a lot of motivation, they're notorious for not really watching where they're going. If the GPS and autopilot work, life is good. Watch the radar? Why ever? (if a container ship hit our boat, they probably wouldn't notice it) All of that said, there's the Jones Act, passed in 1920.

The Jones Act says all US intracoastal shipping (New York to Miami, for example) must be done in a US-flagged ship with US crew. The idea was to support US ship-building (and crews). Seemed like a good idea at the time. Unless you're now living in Puerto Rico, Hurricane Maria has blown down your house, where you work, and all of the Wal-marts. Maersk (Danish) will be very happy to take supplies there but... oops... not a US-flagged ship in the line. AFAIK, there was/is a partial suspension of the Jones Act as it applies to relief for Puerto Rico. But there aren't going to be many Monorovian flags waving in Puerto Rican harbors.

 

[RBEmerson]

ADDED: Think about a company that hires crew for next to nothing. How much money do you think "Cheapskate Lines" spends on maintenance beyond what the USCG demands? Any wonder these ships can fall apart?

 

[kamkar]

On Kristina i had a encounter with a Japanese Pilot when i was at the helm, at the time Krisitna had beed sailing between Japan and the arabian gulf for the better part of a decade, so long they had T shirts made with her hame and nic name " the Naphtha express"

We was going course 190
Pilot then said "point 80"
I repeated that ( as you must do ) saying 0 8 0, and understanding he wanted me to turn the ship out to open sea.
So i put on a lot of rudder to turn the ship 100 degrees.
Dident take long before the polit started yelling and ordering me back to 180 heading.

Later i spoke with the captain and first officer which was both on the bridge at the time, and they said i did nothing wrong

As it turned out he wanted me to go from a 190 heading to a 180 heading, but then you dont say .80 or point 80 to my knowledge.
And you listen to the feedback from the guy at the helm, cuz that's the 1 option to not have stupid mistakes like that.

I had a far better experience steering MT / Gunhild up the river in Canada, the Canadian pilot was a pleasure to work with, and that was nice as there was 0 room for error.
Or MT / Gunhild for that matter. half way up we had to stop at a terminal and discharge some of our cargo to be able to proceed further up and discharge the rest of it.


O and BTW with MT /Gunhild i was at the helm putting her dockside in Buenos aires Argentina, the big moment came when we had to turn the ship 90 degrees to the current of the river and in behind a low stone levy to get into port, i was standing there at the helm thinking " holy **** this is not going to work" but it worked out just fine.
There we also had to discharge into little tankers to be able to pass over the sand banks of the river and into harbor.

 

[Deleted member 24437]

There are financial reasons to outflag your ships.
Thats part of why Maersk got the deal with the government, his ships was then supposed to be moved to carry Danish flag, and Danish crew was hired on a so called netto payment, meaning the difference between netto and brutto the ship owner kept as a form of government support.
Also it let people with my educational background muster the ships after only 12 weeks of schooling as a full fledged sailor, something you in the old days had to have a couple years of effective sailing time before you could call yourself a full fledged sailor.
Marsk did the mistake with a brand new ship, they filled it with people like me fresh from 12 weeks on the school bench, they made it as far as Amsterdam then they was sent home and experienced sailors was called in.
The ships i was on i was the only sailor of my kind, and also why i have always been put in the engine room as there where the bulk of my educational knowledge lies outside of the 12 weeks on sailors school where you just learn the very basic stuff.
My kind meaning people with a "black" education, like machine worker - mechanics - tool makers ASO, you cant go my route into sailing if you have a education as a baker of course.
But as it turned out the government people signing off on the Maersk deal apparently dident read the small print, so within 2 years of that deal being made it was all over.

Denmark have always been a large sea fearing nation, even had a formidable navy, and we was some of the first to deploy a diesel powered ship, and out merchant marine have always been big, and once also crewed for the most by Danes.
Now they found they barely need Danish officers, so they are now getting hard to find too

I call Maersk the company that started Danish maritime operations,,,,,, and then killed it too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk

Muster? Do you mean master?Pilot?

 

[Deleted member 24437]

Did you ever get seasick?
When on a dive boat , I need my scopaline patch-my middle ears no longer co-operate with my brain!

 

[kamkar]

No i meant engage / get on a ship, confused that with the muster drills you have on ships ( fire - man over board drills )

And Danish here we say you "Mønstre et skib", again the funny Dainsh language as mønstre also meaning patterns in danish.
You also "mønstre" for milliary service, and there inspection where all the soldiers are lined up are also called "mønstring" and Mønstre can also be used for providing something or have possession of some thing, and critically survey something, perhaps that's why military use Mønstring when soldiers are lined up for inspection / drills.
So the same work can either mean engaging a ship or patterns,,,,,,,, silly Danes and their silly language, with 1 word meaning a bunch of things often not related one bit.

So for a ship in Danish you would "på Mønstre" ( engage ) and Af Mønstre ( disengage ) a ship "På" meaning ON and AF meaning OFF so directly translated you On engage and OFF engage a ship.

And just to top it off AF ( OFF ) can also be FRA in Danish, you dont turn a switch AF you turn it fra

 

[kamkar]

I did, but only for the first couple of weeks before i burned off the cannabis in my blood, once that was done i did not get sick as such but might loose appetite in really bad weather.

The big tankers i was on dident have stabilizing wings under water like the big container and cruise ships have, BTW you need to remember to retract those before you go dockside.

 

[RBEmerson]

On our boat it is forever and forever "zero eight zero" and never "eighty", which sounds like "eighteen", or part of "one eighty" or part of "two eighty". The pilot had his good points, no doubt, but clarity wasn't one of them. While, in this case, the pilot has the con, I'd still be politely pointing changing course by eight tenths of a degree isn't likely. I guess it was supposed to be "point to '80" or something like that. Which is equally moronic. "Steer one eight zero" or "come to one eight zero" works. Even (in sailing - where directions also be tied to where wind is coming from) "fall off (the wind) five degrees" or "come up five degrees" works - "the wind" is implied. Just throwing out one eighty? Puh-leeze. In any case, whatever the change is, it should be acknowledged: "come to one eight zero, aye" or something close to it. Without it, all manner of ugly mistakes can follow.

Three helps for motion sickness: 1) look outside at the horizon (keeps you oriented), 2) work on getting your gear ready (distracts from thinking about what's going on in your stomache), 3) ginger tablets or flattened ginger ale - no bubbles. Some people do well with ginger, for some people it doesn't do much. I'd be very careful about Dramamine while diving. The increase in air pressure can make some drug effects, that are minor up top, not so minor below. Given Dramamine can induce drowsiness... {/ shudder ] And boat dive more often - after a while your head can get used to the sensations and they fade or don't matter as much. Snorkeling can get to me - being on the surface and being rolled by a small chop can start to take the shine off the day. About the only time I started feeling uncomfortable diving was hanging over a pile of dead eel grass in between some chunks of coral. The surge moved the grass and me while the coral stayed still. What's moving here - the grass or the coral. Weird. I didn't lose anything but I was glad to move on.

 

[kamkar]

Being really seasick are the most god awful feeling, you just wish to die,,,,, at least i do.

In the 90ties i fished a lot, some times on a place called the yellow reef, which you can only reach on a fishing boat some 4 hours northwest out of Hanstholm on the west coast of Jutland.

Last time i was there was really bad in regard to seasickness, and the best trip ever in relation to number of Kg of Cod ASO on the deck.

 

[RBEmerson]

"First you think you're going to die, then you worry that you won't die." You're right - having smelly ugly stuff around, as well as eating a heavy, greasy meal before the weather kicks in... sure fire recipe for suffering.

Y'know... we're all going to go straight to OT hell for all of this sea chatter. Maybe we should start an "anything but action/dash cams" thread?

 

[Nigel]

Three helps for motion sickness: 1) look outside at the horizon (keeps you oriented), 2) work on getting your gear ready (distracts from thinking about what's going on in your stomache), 3) ginger tablets or flattened ginger ale - no bubbles.

4. lie on a gimbal table - completely solves the problem ... until you get off it again and then things are 10 times worse

 

[jokiin]

"First you think you're going to die, then you worry that you won't die." You're right - having smelly ugly stuff around, as well as eating a heavy, greasy meal before the weather kicks in... sure fire recipe for suffering.

some deep fried pork chops and a salmon milkshake and you're good to go

 

[RBEmerson]

Even on dry land... gulp! gag! retch!