SJ8 Pro 4k@60fps, SJ8 Plus 4K@30fps, SJ8 Air Coming Soon!

TwoBlues

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#81
Yummy!
No go salmon milkshake
 

DennisOlof

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#82
Please stop your talk about ships. That should be done somewhere else. This thread is about the coming SJ8 cam.

I am wondering about the features on the SJ8, perhaps sjcam_official knows ?

Some action cameras have the option to use a USB microphone, FPV feeds etc. Will
this camera be more or less the same as the SJ7 Star ?

It would be such a nice thing if you could use a mini-USB dongle cable, that had a 3.5
microphone input jack, and a micro USB connector so you could use a battery
bank with the camera for charging or while it is running. Then you would not run
out of battery and have the ability to just charge the internal battery.

It might not be possible to charge battery inside the camera because of size but while
in use to draw power from external battery bank is important. The SJ7 Star had a touch
screen but also buttons, so nice to have both options and the ability to disable
the touch screen if you want to.

Some versions of the ThiEYE even have a small 2.5 jack on the camera for microphone
use. But a dongle cable will be just fine. Also 24fps is important, that might be possible
with the new great new H2 ambarella, also because it is 14nm instead of 28nm for the older
A12 is should save on battery life and not get overheated.

The only thing missing from almost all action cameras, as far as I know is OIS compared
to only EIS but that is probably because of other factors. I know the Sony X3000 has that but the
design might have room for it.

I do hope we get more information on this new SJ8 as the SJ7 Star is a great camera
and built quality was great.
 

kamkar1

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#83
@sjcam_official was last seen on the forum Jan 31, but lets hope we soon see him again and with good info and news.

I like what you say about a octopus cable for the camera so you can externally charge it and use whatever microphone you would like, though i would not have any use for this myself, then it do look like many people use or want to use external microphones with their little cameras ( making me think they dont really use them for action but rather as a regular camera, maybe vloggin )
In which case i then think they should use something else like a camcorder that do support such things, but hey that's just me.

The Sj8pro only appear to have 1 button on the side and the start/stop button on the top, so interaction for menu changes will probably have to go via the touch screen or app.

I too like the OIS, but i have always been skeptical if it can handle the action a action camera might get exposed to, but i have not heard about people with the Sony cameras have their OIS die, and same with the phone cameras that have it.
So maybe its just me being too skeptical, but if it can work then i sure would like OIS over EIS.

I do love my SJ7 too, but it haven't seen as much action as i would have liked at this time, things worth recording just seem to have bypassed me all together in 2017.
 

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#84
As pirates say on their ships, avast! Belay that boat chatterrrrrr. End of boat stuff. Which showed up because we're bored with waiting for the SJ8. [/ wink ]

A cable that can do power and a mic should be standard. Make the mic jack waterproof when it's not in use (seal the cable end of the jack, and put a "rubber" plug in the other end). If I'm riding my motorcycle, I may want to add commentary, not record only wind going by. Or I may want to put the mic close to the motor or exhaust. An external mic is the answer.

I disagree on "gotta use the screen". If you're in the water and want change the resolution, for example, there'll be no way to do that. Put the camera on a helmet and the only way to change settings is open the case. Pushing the settings button makes these issues go away. Flash will help in the helmet setting but won't be available in the water.

What kept you from using the SJ7?
 

kamkar1

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#85
Weather / lack of toys - things to film / obligations towards friend & family / ongoing depression and finances which i dont have a lot off as early retiree though it is actually more than a full blown pensioner get here.
So i cant really afford to go on rides in my car outside of the little i do now and then to visit my dear old mom and my friend ( once a week, but more often now as my friend need that emptying old house and moving )

When i finally got my expensive Chevy K5 body up and running i found that the car become so top heavy all or its off-road abilities was gone, so i only did a few trips with it and then parked it up for good, and then after a while decided to break the bank and get a new one.

New one in spite of it being a very good running kit i quickly become mad about too, first of all cuz i used the wrong paint on the kit body that peeled off, and then the mental issues i had about the 2 speed transmission got worse.

So i parked that new one up too and when looking for upgrades like new body ( 60 USD ) and a new transmission ( 150 USD ) braking the bank even more, and worst of all the new body was a new one so i had to wait a couple of months for that one to be in the stores.

The car now sit like a rolling chassis with transmission in it, now i just need to make a drive to a former place of work to use their facilities to do a little work in sheet ALU ( cutting / bending / drilling ) and then slap on a coat of black powder coating on the finished ALU work.
Then i little styrene work on my livingroom table ( cabin / dashboard and waterproof box for receiver / BEC / and lighting module i have yet to buy, and that's another 50 bucks )
So mostly now its just me needing to get finger out and get going with the project.


O and i need to paint it too, hope to be able to do that at my friends new house, but that will have to wait untill i have done all the other stuff, and hopefully the temperatures outside have gone up a little as i will have to do it in his stable where we plan to make a hobby paint booth anyway.
They say we will get more snow during Easter, and a spell of cold weather too.

PS. Video above SJ7 so somewhat relevant.
 
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DennisOlof

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#86
kamkar1, yes that is correct.

Action cam, dash cam, vlogging cam etc. All-in-one.

One of my biggest issues with smaller action cameras or compact cameras like Sony RX series, Canon GX7 etc is the missing microphone jack. You might not use it that much but it is so simple to get much better audio quality for videos with a decent microphone. But because these options are missing you can not even use one if you wanted to. You can use a external recorder and sync in post, not that hard. But it is so nice to have better audio from the start than having that external recorder all the time. It is a big like having a camera without a build in flash, when you need it the most you forgot to bring the flash and things like that.

Also this issue of not having this ability with a dongle cable, or to use a microphone is DUMB. All these cameras have USB ports for charging so all the hardware is there. All that you need are a few extra connections etc on the IC board from the port and you are done. The customer is still has to buy that special cable, battery bank, microphone as extras. So that is of not cost to the manufacturer.

The OIS issue is not big deal, I suspect it has mostly to do with size limitations of action cameras, and it only works for slight movements anyway so not that big of a deal. You can always use a gimbal, that said OIS is real important on DSLR but they have no size limitation problems anyway. EIS is fine for action cameras. The thing with vlogging or even using DSLR type cameras, most people (not me) who do more serious stuff use a mix of tools, action cams, small compact cameras, big DSLR cameras. Atomos recorders etc.

So these extra options, like ungraded video, external microphone for decent audio, running a camera of a battery bank etc are small things but important to a lot of people, at least you would have these options even if you do not use them that often. I also like using action cam for dash cam video, I am not a fan of a permamently mounted dashcam because of theft and I like to use a multi purpose camera. Also a action camera is so much more stable than using a smartphone for dash cam, vlogging, live streaming and so on.

Lets hope the SJ8 camera will have all these things, I hope it is a updates SJ7 Star camera and that they can bring some of these things into the camera if they are missing so we get more functionality.
 

DennisOlof

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#87
As pirates say on their ships, avast! Belay that boat chatterrrrrr. End of boat stuff. Which showed up because we're bored with waiting for the SJ8. [/ wink ]

A cable that can do power and a mic should be standard. Make the mic jack waterproof when it's not in use (seal the cable end of the jack, and put a "rubber" plug in the other end). If I'm riding my motorcycle, I may want to add commentary, not record only wind going by. Or I may want to put the mic close to the motor or exhaust. An external mic is the answer.

I disagree on "gotta use the screen". If you're in the water and want change the resolution, for example, there'll be no way to do that. Put the camera on a helmet and the only way to change settings is open the case. Pushing the settings button makes these issues go away. Flash will help in the helmet setting but won't be available in the water.

What kept you from using the SJ7?
Yeah I agree, I am fine with having that special USB cable and feed the external microphone through a mini or micro USB port. And running the camera from external power source. That should be standard by now I think. The touchscreen is probably a cost issue, but yeah. I do not mind having both, and then select the one you want to use, or both at the same time.

Anyway one big problem is of course water and housing for any camera. That scenario is not easy to work with, depending on what your demands are for quality of sound and video. I am looking forward to the SJ8 camera. These new Ambarella H2 and H12 chips look great of paper, will save battery life but the best part is heat as they are 14nm construction.

Also the SJ7 Star had such a nice construction and in reviews people say it does not get hot so that is great. The YI 4+ does seem to have some problems with different things but I feel it was rushed to the market.
 

kamkar1

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#88
I was thinking, that little screen on the front, why not replace that with a touch pad for controlling ASO.

With a little joystick or maybe a + shaped button like on some gamepads thru a WP housing that could do all manner of things, and it might be more easy to make the camera itself in its case more durable towards the elements ( IP rating )

In regard to external microphones and WP housing, maybe it would be best / only option to do that with bluetooth wireless, have some little box you can plug in a regular microphone and then its signal get passed on to the camera using bluetooth.
Maybe be able to pair camera with existing MIC things people already have in their MC helmets and so on.

This will of course only be usable above water, but as i understand it that's also where people experience those problems.

That vloggin thing though, i have to admit i dont get people sitting / driving and filming while talking about this and that. i have absolutely no idea what make people watch stuff like that.
Sure i like news and what not, but i still prefer to read about such things.
 
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RBEmerson

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#89
Yeah I agree, I am fine with having that special USB cable and feed the external microphone through a mini or micro USB port. And running the camera from external power source. That should be standard by now I think. The touchscreen is probably a cost issue, but yeah. I do not mind having both, and then select the one you want to use, or both at the same time.
With the "motorcycle" case or in the bare frame, there's no problem with being able to use an external power source. There is a video how-to for making a power/mic cable. The process takes the skill of a surgeon to do the soldering. IMHO.

The SJ8 without a touchscreen is a non-starter. For a high-end camera (about $100 more than the SJ7), not having it would be a deal breaker for a large part of the potential buyers.
Anyway one big problem is of course water and housing for any camera. That scenario is not easy to work with, depending on what your demands are for quality of sound and video. I am looking forward to the SJ8 camera. These new Ambarella H2 and H12 chips look great of paper, will save battery life but the best part is heat as they are 14nm construction.
The SJ7 is almost totally not protected from anything in the air. Take out the SD, move the camera around a bit while looking into the SD slot, and the insides of the camera are visible. The mic port, connectors, speaker, etc., are also not sealed. Dust can get in, rain or spray can get in. SJCam "stepped on their necktie" in failing to give even minimal water / dust resistance. By comparison, GoPro made the Hero 5 safe to take in a swimming pool. OK, that level of waterproof adds to the cost; making the SJ7 only water-resistant shouldn't cost as much.

It's nice to think the new Ambarella parts will save power and stay cooler. Until the SJ8 comes out, I'm not holding my breath, waiting for a major drop in operating temperature. Naturally, they had better give equal or better image quality compared to the current device.(*)
Also the SJ7 Star had such a nice construction and in reviews people say it does not get hot so that is great. The YI 4+ does seem to have some problems with different things but I feel it was rushed to the market.
I vigorously disagree about the SJ7 and heating. I've posted a lot about this in the SJ7 and Dashcamtalk SJ7 areas. Sitting on my desk and shooting 1080@60, it hit 57C / 135F. I burned my fingers on my SJ7 after it crashed into "gotta pull the battery" mode. I had to take the camera out of the case and that's when it happened. It was only 1st degree burns, but burns nonetheless. Additionally, two batteries have swollen, which means they overheated. Swollen lithium batteries can ignite when the swelling creates an internal short circuit. Not Good. The SJ7 heats up and not just a little. I can't comment on the YI 4+. I haven't seen or tested one.

(*) I did about 90 minutes of video with a Hero5 yesterday. I shot 1080@60 to match how I use the SJ7. The results were disappointing. There were simply too many "make it all the same color" areas in any frame. Resolution of grass along the road was poor, the color of telephone poles was the same over large areas, branches in bushes perhaps 20 meters away were merged into one blob. The SJ7 gives much better resolution, not as many blobs... it's simply better at the same resolution. I'll either sell it or save it for time lapse video. Other than that it's imagery is simply unacceptable.
 

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#90
The Hero 5 has a front screen I think I've really looked at it a handful of times. IMHO it's a waste of parts and space and money - KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). A wobble stick of some sort adds complexity and parts and cost - KISS. A BT link for mics seems like a good idea. The problem is how to do that more than one mic, find mics that even do that, and avoid problems with a BT link between the camera and Flash (IMNSHO the WiFi link is too unstable and mucks up the phone and any capped data plans - phone has to go on the air to move data). And not use up the phone's BT capability. Again KISS. Stick with wires, annoying as they may be.
 

kamkar1

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#91
I think it is rare the people that will use a camera for prolonged shoots in a static environment, aside the the many that will put the camera in the WP housing to give it some degree of protection as the hurl down a mountainside of their bike,,,, or whatever like that.
For my use it is rare i use the WP housing, only in situations like above where the camera stand on a small gorilla pod in a body of water, cuz then it dont take much for some idiot to knock it over :oops:
But in my case shots are only a few minutes at worst before we reset for next location / shot.

I have a sneaky unfounded feeling that there might be differences within cameras in some unexplained way, i have made prolonged recordings in my window sill and yes the SJ7 did get hot, but not something i could not handle, and maybe becuz of that i also have not seen any thermal shutdowns.

If cameras could have a nice flat ALU bottom thru which it could dissipate heat thru, then a WP housing in ALU if you screw the 2 together could soak up that heat and pass it on to the water or air rushing by its outer surfaces.
I am pretty sure all performance cameras would go thermal belly up in a WP housing during a prolonged shot, but outside of such a housing it should not happen, maybe with the only NUT being if it was in a hot place at first like a windscreen or otherwise sunny place with little or no circulation to talk about.
I also think this is why GoPro changed to a self sustained camera, waterproof to some degree in it self, and with the side benefit that more people would break it and go buy a new one.
 

RBEmerson

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#92
I think it is rare the people that will use a camera for prolonged shoots in a static environment, aside the the many that will put the camera in the WP housing to give it some degree of protection as the hurl down a mountainside of their bike,,,, or whatever like that.
Remember that the SJ7 has dash cam capability - looping, power detection, etc. |I'd call that a static use. With lots of sunlight heating things up on a sunny day.

Use where camera user is moving around, the case is, of course, a good idea. For protection. Not for cooling - except in the winter or in the water.
For my use it is rare i use the WP housing, only in situations like above where the camera stand on a small gorilla pod in a body of water, cuz then it dont take much for some idiot to knock it over :oops:
But in my case shots are only a few minutes at worst before we reset for next location / shot.
I see that, but shooting from a motorcycle or whatever, a longer shot may be needed. Better to have too much footage and trim off the excess than to wish there was more footage, which doesn't exist.
I have a sneaky unfounded feeling that there might be differences within cameras in some unexplained way, i have made prolonged recordings in my window sill and yes the SJ7 did get hot, but not something i could not handle, and maybe becuz of that i also have not seen any thermal shutdowns.
I suspect there have been at least a couple of production runs, with engineering changes added to later runs. IIRC, the mic location was changed. Different cameras come with different fimware rev.s.

Once again, it's using the camera in either case that lets the SJ7 really heat up. Sitting on a window sill, etc., the camera doesn't get as hot.

I don't know that the SJ7 has shut down solely due to excess heat. V1.21 has been moderately unreliable, but I blame that on coding issues, not heat. Go back to 1.20 and there are fewer crashes with the same temps.
If cameras could have a nice flat ALU bottom thru which it could dissipate heat thru, then a WP housing in ALU if you screw the 2 together could soak up that heat and pass it on to the water or air rushing by its outer surfaces.
I am pretty sure all performance cameras would go thermal belly up in a WP housing during a prolonged shot, but outside of such a housing it should not happen, maybe with the only NUT being if it was in a hot place at first like a windscreen or otherwise sunny place with little or no circulation to talk about.
The basic idea here is to get rid of as much heat as possible. Adding at least a metal front panel is a step forward. Many heat sinks have fins, ridges, etc. to increase surface area. That's not an option in this situation. Additionally, the case should have at least the same radiating surface area as the camera itself. Having less area means the camera will need more time to hit thermal equilibrium. Not Good.
I also think this is why GoPro changed to a self sustained camera, waterproof to some degree in it self, and with the side benefit that more people would break it and go buy a new one.
It's more likely that GP recognized slippery cameras are no fun. If it's no fun, it's not bought. The same thing for at least some degree of water-proofing. If the camera will drown in a splash at a pool, or in the rain, that's no fun. Deliberately boost the failure rate? I doubt it. OK, it'd help sales. But only to a point. If a product gets the reputation of failing shortly after coming out of the box, there will be fewer boxes sold. Not Good. (again)

The SJ8 needs to be cooler, and at least stand going swimming. Only resisting being splashed is a passable, if lame, alternative.
 

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#94
Hehe yeah i do think the new GP have a nice grip, at least it look that way.
Personally i have never been bothered by that, or maybe a little when my friends hyperactive dog knocked the first SJ6 legend out of my hand and into his fish pond.
But in regular use i have never felt the plastic / metal cameras to be on any concern in this regard, but it is a valid path of upgrade for sure, i have always been a function over form guy.
I dont think the Sj8 will be that protected in its own right, but i might be wrong here, but the latch covering the ports on the end dont look to be particular element tight, at least not for fluid elements, dust will probably be fine.
I would think it take something stronger than a "Click" to seal for water other than a splash or drops from above.
 

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#95
Some folks put their cameras in a case or carrier and start shooting. Some people run around, shooting video and stills without a carrier. A non-skid skin makes sense to me. IIRC someone from SJCam said the SJ8 would have a skin.

The Hero 5 has gaskets for the connector port and battery port. GP specifically says leaving either door open means the camera's no longer waterproof. Well, duh. But snap the doors shut, let the gaskets compress, and take the camera for a swim or shoot inside a dust storm, or shoot during whatever that festival is where people throw colored powder around.
 

DennisOlof

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#96
So any ETA on this SJ8 cam, sounds like it will be out now in April but I do not know.

At least I expect we will see units during the summertime. I was looking at the YI+ but
the SJ8 seems like a better option. Mostly due to activity here on the forums
and perhaps better support.

Also any action cam I buy must be able to work as a dashcam, at least with the
basic important functions.

Also will these cameras break the 64Gb barrier, seems a lot of them are still
stuck with the smaller size cards.
 

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#97
??? The SJ7 works with 128 Gb SD's without a problem. I've used them since firmware V1.15.

The SJ7 works as a dashcam except there is no GPS. Otherwise looping at any res from 4K is supported. I recommend staying with 1080@60fps and adding EIS ("gyro"), which isn't present for 4K. If dashcam use is important, the SJ7 is worth seriously thinking about. If the goal is only to include dashcam in the camera's different roles, obviously things change.
 

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#98
Judging by their silence for the last month, I wouldn't hold my breath for this month or May, maybe June!
 

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#99
Sigh... all of SJCam went dark just before Chinese New Year. "I've got a bad feeling about this, Chewy" - - Han Solo