A119 PRO?!?

[c4rc4m]

MTZ, I'm not referring to action cams though. 4K STARVIS sensors (0.01lux sensitvity) are already filtering into use (very slowly) in CCTV cameras. CCTV turrets are quite small in size and can be subject to direct sunlight just as a dashcam can, albeit only at dashcam temps in hotter countries. I'm not sure what the difference is in thermal terms although it could be the product of some of the encoding and recording being done externally. However, personally I wouldn't rule out a separate recording box in a boot or glove box if thermally it wasn't possible all in one, if the results were worth it and the cost could still be kept reasonable. (It's worth noting police Dashcams already have the camera and recorder split like this).

As for motion blur, motion blur is simply the product the of a slow shutter speed. At night that's unavoidable, although the more sensitive the sensor, potentially the faster the shutter speed possible. In the day, it shouldn't' really be an issue.

Someone on Youtube did a comparison (I'm not sure how they fitted a CCTV camera into their car, but they did), of a 4K STARVIS CCTV camera using one of the latest chips - IMX226 - dash mounted vs Warrier G1S XM and Blackvue DR750S dashcams. The difference is really quite striking even when watched back at 1080P and not 4K. Whilst even the 4K isn't perfect with motion, it's still a great pic compared to the others and shows the potential of some Sony STARVIS sensors.

 

[Agie]

MTZ, I'm not referring to action cams though. 4K STARVIS sensors (0.01lux sensitvity) are already filtering into use (very slowly) in CCTV cameras. CCTV turrets are quite small in size and can be subject to direct sunlight just as a dashcam can, albeit only at dashcam temps in hotter countries. I'm not sure what the difference is in thermal terms although it could be the product of some of the encoding and recording being done externally. However, personally I wouldn't rule out a separate recording box in a boot or glove box if thermally it wasn't possible all in one, if the results were worth it and the cost could still be kept reasonable. (It's worth noting police Dashcams already have the camera and recorder split like this).

As for motion blur, motion blur is simply the product the of a slow shutter speed. At night that's unavoidable, although the more sensitive the sensor, potentially the faster the shutter speed possible. In the day, it shouldn't' really be an issue.

Someone on Youtube did a comparison (I'm not sure how they fitted a CCTV camera into their car, but they did), of a 4K STARVIS CCTV camera using one of the latest chips - IMX226 - dash mounted vs Warrier G1S XM and Blackvue DR750S dashcams. The difference is really quite striking even when watched back at 1080P and not 4K. Whilst even the 4K isn't perfect with motion, it's still a great pic compared to the others and shows the potential of some Sony STARVIS sensors.

I recall watching that video a few months back - ridiculous how good the 4K Sony sensor is in night time the clarity is night and day. Miles beyond the low light capabilities of what their current sensors in phones and action cameras are at at the moment.

Hopefully these sensors will trickle down into dash cameras this year

 

[Moon]

4K Starvis is obviously better ... only does it use a zoom? The shot of the 4K always appeared closer which is a natural advantage when comparing vids/pics

 

[Mtz]

That is not a zoom. It is a lens with smaller FOV. When people are choosing a dashcam with the bigger FOV should watch videos like this before to understand that a smaller FOV is offering more details.

4K needs bigger sensors compared to what is used actually inside cheap action cameras under $200. For sure will be launched real 4K dashcams with average video because of affordable price.
Premium manufacturers should understand that is not OK for their business to continue delivering expensive dashcams like that Blackvue from the video with average quality videos.

Right now an important criteria to chose a dashcam is if it is with a Sony sensor or not. When chosing a 4K dashcam, at the begining, the criteria will remain the same, but soon people which really want a good 4K image will look for the size of the CMOS.
The 4K first criteria to buy a dashcam with good video will be the size of the sensor. When somebody will ask me what 4K dashcam to buy will be "the one with the bigger CMOS".

The idea is that a real 4K is not for everyone, buyers and manufacturers.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[Harsh]

FOV from the Pro looks narrower than the A119S. Isn't that a bit too narrow?

Personally I'd like to see something in between the A119 and A119S, with edge to edge sharpness.

 

[Mtz]

Do you know why the wide lens were so much advertised in dashcams? Because is more easy to make a wide lens compared to a normal lens. So the poor chinese guys which were fighting for the lowest price started to advertise their bullsh*t camera to be fantastic just because the lens is so wide. So they advertised 180 degrees lens because were cheap, not because were good.

Now @Moon discovered that a smaller FOV is better than a wide lens because is offering more details. Unfortunately too many people are discovering this too late, or never discovering that they are living in that poor advertising with a poor lens.

So, a good dashcam should stay at 120-140 degrees.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[CharlieGirl]

I hope that the dual port version is backward compatible to accepts the current A19 because having just bought one I would want to relegate the A119 to the rear of the car and use the new A119 pro up front.

 

[Harsh]

I hope that the dual port version is backward compatible to accepts the current A19 because having just bought one I would want to relegate the A119 to the rear of the car and use the new A119 pro up front.

Different hardware and different cameras altogether. No interchangeability or compatibility as both the A119 and A119 Pro are single channel cameras.

The dual channel's (A129) main camera looks like the A119, secondary camera (rear) plugs into the main camera and is a lot smaller.

 

[Dashmellow]

Do you know why the wide lens were so much advertised in dashcams? Because is more easy to make a wide lens compared to a normal lens. So the poor chinese guys which were fighting for the lowest price started to advertise their bullsh*t camera to be fantastic just because the lens is so wide. So they advertised 180 degrees lens because were cheap, not because were good.

Now @Moon discovered that a smaller FOV is better than a wide lens because is offering more details. Unfortunately too many people are discovering this too late, or never discovering that they are living in that poor advertising with a poor lens.

So, a good dashcam should stay at 120-140 degrees.

enjoy,
Mtz

Unfortunately, there is quite a lot of bullsh*t about lenses fed to customers from dash cam manufacturers and sellers. One of the things that always stands out to me is the BS about the number of glass elements in a lens, as if the more elements in a lens the better the lens will perform. You always see dash cam sellers saying something like, "6 glass lens" and Street Guardian even pushes the claim to "7 elements"! (6 glass + IR cut filter) as if the IR-cut filter is a lens element. Most buyers don't know much about lens optics so they take advantage of this with the marketing BS. The truth of the matter is the number of glass elements has virtually nothing to do with ultimate image quality. A high quality lens of the proper design with four elements can outperform a crappy lens with 6 elements. Image quality in a lens is determined by the optical design, the quality and type of glass, the type of lens coatings, the material the lens barrel and module are made from (metal, plastic, FRP) and the precision of manufacture.

 

[CharlieGirl]

Different hardware and different cameras altogether. No interchangeability or compatibility as both the A119 and A119 Pro are single channel cameras.

The dual channel's (A129) main camera looks like the A119, secondary camera (rear) plugs into the main camera and is a lot smaller.

Isn't the A129 the same thing as the Pro?
Maybe not. Anyway, I don't see why it can't be done with the dual channel camera, it's surely just down to software, as the data from the rear connected camera just gets saved to the SD card on the main camera. Maybe there are some features that are additional, like control of the rear camera through the main camera or something but I could do without that and I wouldn't think that would be anything more than software either.

 

[Harsh]

Isn't the A129 the same thing as the Pro?

Pro is a single channel, like the A119/A119S. Dual channel (A129) has a front camera that looks similar to the A119/A119S (wedge shape) and a rear camera that connects to the one in the front. Both the A119 Pro and A129 are yet to be released.

Maybe not. Anyway, I don't see why it can't be done with the dual channel camera, it's surely just down to software, as the data from the rear connected camera just gets saved to the SD card on the main camera. Maybe there are some features that are additional, like control of the rear camera through the main camera or something but I could do without that and I wouldn't think that would be anything more than software either.

It's more than just software, all the mentioned models employ different chipsets and sensors. If your concern is backward compatibility of the firmware, you needn't worry as each camera has its own model specific firmware.

 

[CharlieGirl]

Pro is a single channel, like the A119/A119S. Dual channel (A129) has a front camera that looks similar to the A119/A119S (wedge shape) and a rear camera that connects to the one in the front. Both the A119 Pro and A129 are yet to be released.

Thanks that's good to know.

It's more than just software, all the mentioned models employ different chipsets and sensors. If your concern is backward compatibility of the firmware, you needn't worry as each camera has its own model specific firmware.

What I meant was I don't see any reason why the different hardware would stop the A119 being plugged into the A129 and used as a rear camera, which is what I hope to do, provided they design the A129 to handle that. Make sense?

 

[jokiin]

What I meant was I don't see any reason why the different hardware would stop the A119 being plugged into the A129 and used as a rear camera, which is what I hope to do, provided they design the A129 to handle that. Make sense?

it doesn't work that way, not possible

 

[Harsh]

What I meant was I don't see any reason why the different hardware would stop the A119 being plugged into the A129 and used as a rear camera, which is what I hope to do, provided they design the A129 to handle that. Make sense?

The A119's mini USB port transmits only power and GPS data. Even if there was a way to utilise just the sensor on the A119, there's no way of sending the video from the A119 to the A129? The rear camera that comes in the dual channel package is specifically designed to work with the main unit, can't go plugging any camera one fancies.

You can stick to your plan of moving the A119 to the rear once you get the A119 Pro. They'll works as separate cameras.

If you get the A129, rear camera will be a part of the package.

 

[c4rc4m]

Now @Moon discovered that a smaller FOV is better than a wide lens because is offering more details. Unfortunately too many people are discovering this too late, or never discovering that they are living in that poor advertising with a poor lens.

So, a good dashcam should stay at 120-140 degrees.

enjoy,
Mtz

Yeah it's kind of like a rush to the bottom. The larger number (of degrees) must be better. However, I said it on here a long time ago, even at 1080P there's a lot to be gained from simply having 80 degrees vs 140 degrees. Of course, some would find 80 degrees too narrow. However, something around 100-120 degrees fov I personally think could work for most people as a front or rear camera. The other answer of course is more pixels, or better still a narrower lens plus more pixels!

On the detail front, it comes down to pixel density. The wider the FOV, the more area the pixel count is spread over and so the lower the density. The lower the density, the less sharp and well defined the picture is and harder it becomes to make out faces or number plates.

Axis communications have some interesting documents on the subject. However, it becomes hard to calculate the density at range, because you need to know at eg 20 meters, what the horzontal and vertical FOV is in metres. If you have those figures plus the lens FOV in degrees, then there's a calculator that tells you the pixel density. Although the calculator is set up for their cameras, I would presume the result is the product of camera resolution not model. It's interesting because in one of their docs, examples appear to suggest 150 pixels is required to get a clear view of a number plate, however, you'd be surprised at 1080p how small a distance away from the camera on a 115 degree lens reduces the pixel density down into just the 30 pixel range or 5 times less than the required amount to get the clear view!

All I can say beyond that, is have a play and draw your own conclusions: https://www.axis.com/global/en/tools/lens-calculator

http://www.networkwebcams.co.uk/blog/2013/10/22/useful-examples-of-pixel-density-network-cameras/

 

[Moon]

Yeah ... I fell for the wider FOV the better marketing - coming in fresh, wide-eyed and bushy tailed ... knowing nothing.
I guess you learn over time and find that this isn't the case.
I guess I ended up choosing the VicoVation that had a 150 FOV for the front and the VIOFO A119s with a 135 FOV for the rear.
I'm very happy with those choices ... the A119 PRO is catching my eye ... and hanging out to watch one of those in action. Exciting

 

[Mtz]

When you will have both cameras in hands just put side-by-side for a test and see how big is the difference in reality between 150 and 135 degrees of FOV. because you are using branded cameras and not so no-names I expect the lens FOV specs to be correct and your result will reflect the reality.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[Moon]

Any updates on how the A119 PRO is progressing?

 

[Mtz]

China is in holiday until Feb. 26.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[bnevets27]

Now that CES is over, any more info?