Mobius support thread and Tech Guide (post all problems/help requests here) Read posts #1-8 first

[Dashmellow]

No change......

As I tried to carefully explain and demonstrate almost two weeks ago, there is nothing wrong with your camera. The color shifts you are seeing are simply a result of different color temperature lighting sources being picked up by your camera's sensor at night. Obviously, the color shifts are not happening during the daytime or you would surely be complaining about that too. During the day you only have sunlight illuminating your image but at night you have mixed lighting and no matter what White Balance setting you choose in the firmware it cannot simultaneously accommodate all the different artificial light sources you encounter after dark.

These ongoing complaints are similar to the "swimming grain" issue" which is also just a red herring and is merely common sensor noise attributable to the firmware's pushing of the level of gain control to the practical maximum the Mobius sensor will allow. Many people do not realize it or understand the reasons for it but grain in an image can very often increase acuity.

 

[dirkzelf]

As I tried to carefully explain and demonstrate almost two weeks ago, there is nothing wrong with your camera. The color shifts you are seeing are simply a result of different color temperature lighting sources being picked up by your camera's sensor at night. Obviously, the color shifts are not happening during the daytime or you would surely be complaining about that too. During the day you only have sunlight illuminating your image but at night you have mixed lighting and no matter what White Balance setting you choose in the firmware it cannot simultaneously accommodate all the different artificial light sources you encounter after dark.

These ongoing complaints are similar to the "swimming grain" issue" which is also just a red herring and is merely common sensor noise attributable to the firmware's pushing of the level of gain control to the practical maximum the Mobius sensor will allow. Many people do not realize it or understand the reasons for it but grain in an image can very often increase acuity.

Thanks, I know about the fishes being a natural phenomenon in this camera.

I just wanted to report that changing wb/color settings didn't make a difference.

And I understand also the thing about the different types of lighting during night recordings, and that each lighting has it's own color temperature, the real thing that bugs me is that the green smear is ALWAYS, really ALWAYS on the exact same spot on the recording, it's static, and never moves along with the type of lighting, which obviously moves through the screen when driving.

The intensity does change sometimes with certain lighting moving in and out the view, but the green spot NEVER moves in or out the picture.

I might try using the camera upside down to see if my green ghost guest turns up on the other side..... just out of curiousity.

 

[Dashmellow]

Thanks, I know about the fishes being a natural phenomenon in this camera.

I just wanted to report that changing wb/color settings didn't make a difference.

And I understand also the thing about the different types of lighting during night recordings, and that each lighting has it's own color temperature, the real thing that bugs me is that the green smear is ALWAYS, really ALWAYS on the exact same spot on the recording, it's static, and never moves along with the type of lighting, which obviously moves through the screen when driving.

The intensity does change sometimes with certain lighting moving in and out the view, but the green spot NEVER moves in or out the picture.

I might try using the camera upside down to see if my green ghost guest turns up on the other side..... just out of curiousity.

As I've said previously, it is possible that something is wrong with your lens module but the fact that it only happens at night suggests otherwise. If it is always in the same place at night, it might be your headlights for example.

Changing the WB settings would be global, so again, it would not be able to accommodate every color temperature it sees regardless of what it is optimized for.

One of the images you posted recently shows the car to the left and ahead of you with it's headlights causing a green tint to the road surface in front of it because of the color temperature of those headlights. Is that what you are talking about?

Please explain further about the green "smear" you are referring to.

 

[dirkzelf]

As I've said previously, it is possible that something is wrong with your lens module but the fact that it only happens at night suggests otherwise. If it is always in the same place at night, it might be your headlights for example.

Changing the WB settings would be global, so again, it would not be able to accommodate every color temperature it sees regardless of what it is optimized for.

One of the images you posted recently shows the car to the left and ahead of you with it's headlights causing a green tint to the road surface in from of it because of the color temperature of those headlights. Is that what you are talking about?

Please explain further about the green "smear" you are referring to.

View attachment 21644

This picture is with color set to sunny, so the white lines changed slightly to yellow, and the passing car has definitely other type of headlights than my truck here. They were perfectly white. So there may be something in it that would coraborate your explanation of the issue, if it is an issue, which I am starting to have doubts about.

However there are also the pictures from me standing stationairy, one with headlights on, one with headlights off. Both show greening on the right side.

 

[Dashmellow]

I think the colors you are seeing are completely normal at night under artificial lighting. I wouldn't worry about it. Personally, as far as dash cams are concerned, I am more interested in capturing what happens in front of my vehicle than concerning myself with color temperature shifts.

 

[Dashmellow]

However there are also the pictures from me standing stationairy, one with headlights on, one with headlights off. Both show greening on the right side.

I think I do see the greenish tint you are talking about but if it only happens at night I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't know, maybe the thing to do is just buy another lens module and see what happens?

Another thing you might try is to see if you can find a place where you could do some more definitive testing, like a place where your camera is facing a uniform white wall under consistent lighting instead of a tilted lamp post in a dark residential neighborhood?

BTW, here is an example of a night time photograph where different color temperature lamps are showing up as green, reddish and bluish in the image. It is a more extreme example of what I think is really happening, but yeah, it could be your sensor I guess.

 

[dirkzelf]

I think the colors you are seeing are completely normal at night under artificial lighting.

As I said before, I totally agree with that, but if that were the case then the greening should move in the frame with the lights, however, it ONLY appears on the right side.....ALWAYS!

That MUST make us suspicious, no?

Again, I don't care about colors change due to different lighting, it's normal, but it's NOT normal to see a green smear ONLY on one side of the frame..... ALWAYS.... !

 

[Dashmellow]

As I said before, I totally agree with that, but if that were the case then the greening should move in the frame with the lights, however, it ONLY appears on the right side.....ALWAYS!

That MUST make us suspicious, no?

Again, I don't care about colors change due to different lighting, it's normal, but it's NOT normal to see a green smear ONLY on one side of the frame..... ALWAYS.... !

Yes, I agree, there could be a problem. As I've suggested see if you can find a big white wall to test things out on. Try the big white wall during the day too, if possible.

Edit: Is it possible there is something different about the lamps in the headlights on each side of your vehicle that are making it appear as one color on one side and a different color on the other? Have you ever had one of the headlights replaced?

 

[dirkzelf]

well, I flipped the camera 180 degrees to see what happens.

Please let me know what you see and think of it.....

C2 Lens:



B Lens:

 

[Dashmellow]

I suggested finding a white wall to test the camera at night. Flip the image in the firmware doesn't really tell us anything useful.

Either way, as I've been saying all along I see nothing wrong with your camera.

 

[dirkzelf]

I suggested finding a white wall to test the camera at night. Flip the image in the firmware doesn't really tell us anything useful.

Either way, as I've been saying all along I see nothing wrong with your camera.

I didn't find one white wall yet, and flipping can be always done, so I did that first this morning. No need for a whitewall now anymore I guess?

I think it's pretty strong evidence for nothing being wrong with the sensor, now that still doesn't mean that it's OK this way, but I'll shut up now.

 

[Dashmellow]

I didn't find one white wall yet, and flipping can be always done, so I did that first this morning. No need for a whitewall now anymore I guess?

I think it's pretty strong evidence for nothing being wrong with the sensor, now that still doesn't mean that it's OK this way, but I'll shut up now.

After all these weeks I'm glad to hear that you've come around to believing that there is nothing wrong with the sensor. Just remember that it really is OK. As I said quite some time ago, no camera in the world no matter how expensive can automatically adjust for the color temperature of every artificial light source in an image. It is impossible. Professional photographers and videographers use all kinds of elaborate techniques to achieve a "nearly" proper color balance but doing that with ANY camera just pointing out of a car windshield at night and expecting a proper color balance is not a realistic expectation.

 

[dirkzelf]

After all these weeks I'm glad to hear that you've come around to believing that there is nothing wrong with the sensor. Just remember that it really is OK. As I said quite some time ago, no camera in the world no matter how expensive can automatically adjust for the color temperature of every artificial light source in an image. It is impossible. Professional photographers and videographers use all kinds of elaborate techniques to achieve a "nearly" proper color balance but doing that with ANY camera just pointing out of a car windshield at night and expecting a proper color balance is not a realistic expectation.

First of all, believing has something to do with UNSEEN things, while here we have an issue that can be seen by everyone. We all have the right to believe anything we want, luckily, but that doesn't mean that we don't have to investigate or study the subject to believe in.

I said I wanted to shut up, because I don't want to aggrivate anyone any further, and because aparently you can't accept the obvious: at night the camera simply performs worse that other (often much cheaper) dashcams, so discussing any further would have been futile, but there still is that issue.

Until now it stil is unclear WHY we have the green monster, and WHY others have NOT.... So we NEED to accept that other (often much cheaper) dashcams don't have this phenomenon, and that makes our Mobius look at least a little silly.

Furthermore, I'm very uncomfortable with you saying that I have "come around" .... "after all this weeks", implying that I'm some stubborn numnut, that doesn't want to take any advice from anyone. That would be categorigally incorrect. I am STILL seeking for advice, but I have come to the conclusion that there is only one, buy another brand of camera, since it can't be fixed, according to people with the knowledge about it.

You are of cours right about the color temperature differences, and it is indeed weird that the green smear stays on the right side of the screen when flipped, implying that it is not the sensor doing this. So, it may not be the sensor, but SOMETHING is off.....because, again, other (often much cheaper) dashcams don't have this phenomenon...... as far as I have seen.

So, you can't simply say that this is a natural phenomeneon that ALL camera's have and that we THEREFORE have to accept the underperformance of our otherwise (still) beloved camera, without pointing in any direction for proof samples.

Leaving you with this, I'd like you to show us some example screenshots of other camera's that show this exact same phenomeneon as proof for your diagnostic conclusion.

 

[RippleTheRippler]

The processor can become confused on very rare occasions and just choke up . It's hard to say what might cause it to happen. One possible example might be removing the microSD card halfway through boot-up. I read somewhere that a DSP is more likely to freeze up if it is very hot when something unusual happens but I don't know if that is true. Could have been anything. As long as it doesn't happen all the time I wouldn't worry about what caused it to happen as long as it is back to normal after a reset. I've only had it happen once in two years of owning multiple Mobi.

I took the camera out and have been running it in the house 24/7 for testing.

If I go away, the camera is off after a few hours of recording. Plugging it in shows a blue light then it shuts off. No recording. If I leave it for a few hours and come back, it starts recording no problem.

So weird. When I try the capacitor, the above is the result, when I try the internal battery it feezes with the yellow light and a hard reset has the same result, no recording until I let it sit for a few hours.

 

[Dashmellow]

I took the camera out and have been running it in the house 24/7 for testing.

If I go away, the camera is off after a few hours of recording. Plugging it in shows a blue light then it shuts off. No recording. If I leave it for a few hours and come back, it starts recording no problem.

So weird. When I try the capacitor, the above is the result, when I try the internal battery it feezes with the yellow light and a hard reset has the same result, no recording until I let it sit for a few hours.

You don't mention whether or not you've tried the suggestion to do a hard reset. Other than that, assuming you've explored all the suggested usual rule of thumb troubleshooting procedures I don't know what is wrong with your camera.

 

[newton]

I took the camera out and have been running it in the house 24/7 for testing.

If I go away, the camera is off after a few hours of recording. Plugging it in shows a blue light then it shuts off. No recording. If I leave it for a few hours and come back, it starts recording no problem.

So weird. When I try the capacitor, the above is the result, when I try the internal battery it feezes with the yellow light and a hard reset has the same result, no recording until I let it sit for a few hours.

I had a similar thing happen to my two new mobius with super cap, it would turn off after a few minutes or a few hours. I tried an older card of the same class and brand (kingston class 4) and it worked fine. Funnily enough I had another mobius that hated the older cards but loved the new ones, all same FW.

So for me it was the memory card.

 

[Dashmellow]

First of all, believing has something to do with UNSEEN things, while here we have an issue that can be seen by everyone. We all have the right to believe anything we want, luckily, but that doesn't mean that we don't have to investigate or study the subject to believe in.

I said I wanted to shut up, because I don't want to aggrivate anyone any further, and because aparently you can't accept the obvious: at night the camera simply performs worse that other (often much cheaper) dashcams, so discussing any further would have been futile, but there still is that issue.

Until now it stil is unclear WHY we have the green monster, and WHY others have NOT.... So we NEED to accept that other (often much cheaper) dashcams don't have this phenomenon, and that makes our Mobius look at least a little silly.

Furthermore, I'm very uncomfortable with you saying that I have "come around" .... "after all this weeks", implying that I'm some stubborn numnut, that doesn't want to take any advice from anyone. That would be categorigally incorrect. I am STILL seeking for advice, but I have come to the conclusion that there is only one, buy another brand of camera, since it can't be fixed, according to people with the knowledge about it.

You are of cours right about the color temperature differences, and it is indeed weird that the green smear stays on the right side of the screen when flipped, implying that it is not the sensor doing this. So, it may not be the sensor, but SOMETHING is off.....because, again, other (often much cheaper) dashcams don't have this phenomenon...... as far as I have seen.

So, you can't simply say that this is a natural phenomeneon that ALL camera's have and that we THEREFORE have to accept the underperformance of our otherwise (still) beloved camera, without pointing in any direction for proof samples.

Leaving you with this, I'd like you to show us some example screenshots of other camera's that show this exact same phenomeneon as proof for your diagnostic conclusion.

The question is not whether what you are seeing is UNSEEN. The question is what is causing you to see it. I think that you are seeing a color shift on one side due to something about your headlights but if you are not willing to do any definitive testing then it is a matter of what you "believe" over what "is". If you don't see any "Green Monsters" during the daytime, it is highly unlikely that you would have something other than an external light source causing it to occur at night only. I don't believe there is anything wrong with your Mobius other than perhaps unrealistic expectations.

You asked: "I'd like you to show us some example screenshots of other camera's that show this exact same phenomeneon as proof for your diagnostic conclusion." Well, I already did that two weeks ago but you seem to want to ignore that. Here is the image again. It was from @kamkar1's JooVuuX and in this case the so called" Green Monster" you see on the surface of the road is caused by a beam of light that has a CRI (Color Rendering Index) in the green area of the spectrum as it appears to the CMOS in your camera.



I keep trying to explain how different light sources will appear as different colors on camera. Here is another excellent example of the phenomenon. The entire right side of the road has a "Green Monster". Of course, on the left is the "Orange Monster".

 

[jokiin]

I had a similar thing happen to my two new mobius with super cap, it would turn off after a few minutes or a few hours. I tried an older card of the same class and brand (kingston class 4) and it worked fine. Funnily enough I had another mobius that hated the older cards but loved the new ones, all same FW.

So for me it was the memory card.

what is often overlooked (unknown maybe??) is that memory cards also have different firmware versions and may use different controller chipsets, even if externally the cards appear to be the same make and model of card, even if purchased at the same time, I ordered 1500 Kingston cards a few weeks ago and received 4 or 5 different versions of what appeared to be identical cards, we are now dealing directly with Transcend and getting cards with identical hardware and firmware in each delivery, we have found one of the biggest challenges is memory card quality, it can cause some problems that can be very hard to trace at times

 

[Dashmellow]

what is often overlooked (unknown maybe??) is that memory cards also have different firmware versions and may use different controller chipsets, even if externally the cards appear to be the same make and model of card, even if purchased at the same time, I ordered 1500 Kingston cards a few weeks ago and received 4 or 5 different versions of what appeared to be identical cards, we are now dealing directly with Transcend and getting cards with identical hardware and firmware in each delivery, we have found one of the biggest challenges is memory card quality, it can cause some problems that can be very hard to trace at times

I sometimes think of microSD cards in dash cams as being analogous to buying different brands and qualities of VHS tapes for a VCR. Some performed better and lasted longer. One could even think of it as being like which type of film you put in a camera. As a photographer I have often purchased large "bricks" of film for a particular job so you get the same manufacturing batch which will provide consistent color results that may differ slightly from another batch.

 

[jokiin]

One could even think of it as being like which type of film you put in a camera. As a photographer I have often purchased large "bricks" of film for a particular job so you get the same manufacturing batch which will provide consistent color results the may different slightly from another batch.

although that's an analogue format it's still a valid comparison, it's all about maintaining consistency of output or end result, dealing with knowns rather than unknowns, it's also one of the reasons why with retailers we only supply cameras with memory cards included so we can have a reasonable expectation of how it's being used, until such time as they buy some 128gb card off eBay for $8 and then blame the camera